|
Originally Posted by Flaps50
(Post 268754)
Most McD workers make more than Saabs Per Diem, does that mean they are overpaid too; because someone in the world is starving. I really don't get your argument.
|
Originally Posted by dba74
(Post 268701)
This is what I was trying to tell my ASA brothers and sisters before they (most of them) voted for a godawful TA. They don't have enough experience to know that it's bad. Mark my words.. in the next few months as it is implemented, complaints will spew forth
P.S. - XJT guys, it's a joke. That's what the ;) means. |
Originally Posted by HSLD
(Post 268753)
Total compensation shows that it's not artificial at all. Compare by fleet and seat, and you'll see unionized pilots make more money, have better benefits, and enjoy a better quality of life. ;)
The beauty of capitalism is that the fair market value is what you negotiate. What you want it to be, and what it is, is sometimes disappointing. |
Originally Posted by SharkAir
(Post 268756)
I'm not arguing anything. I'm just saying that while you're fighting for your higher pay, keep in mind that relative to much of the rest of the world, you're pretty well off. But I'm all for making more; if someone is willing to give me more money, I'll take it, starving children or not.
|
Um, yeah? Wasn't I saying something to this effect?
|
Originally Posted by fosters
(Post 268742)
The words "unified" and "equitable" shouldn't be used in the same sentence. As a union, IMO, pilots artificially inflate their value.
If you want to look at what the "true" market value of an airline pilot's wages would be, look to non-union carriers such as jetBlue, Virgin America, and skybus. The argument is absurd. If you want to make that argument, I say get rid of the airline management skewed Railway Labor Act. Allow us to strike anytime a contract is infringed upon, and let's see where a true free market gets us when we can shutdown the country's travel anytime we want if we're not happy. Check the value then. Allow us to truly get together and negotiate as one complete entity of 70,000 people at once. Free means free, and guarantee you that when those planes are parked management will come knocking. Right now they can hide behind the RLA for years pitting one group against another as well as get the courts to abrogate contracts, and that is why wages have fallen in the airlines. |
Originally Posted by fosters
(Post 268758)
Right, which was my point. Ask yourself, why do union pilots make more money? Is it because they make more money for their respective companies, or because they used their leverage to an unfair advantage?
Fair market value if you negotiate on equal terms. Unions are the work place equivalent of stacking the deck in labors favor. Not that I'm against that - far from it seeing as I am part of the labor pool - but let's call a spade a spade. |
Originally Posted by Flaps50
(Post 268764)
You can't negotiate with a public company as a private individual line pilot in todays world. Who would have invested the mega bucks to become an ATP with a future of 60K a year. Not me.
The argument is absurd. If you want to make that argument, I say get rid of the airline management skewed Railway Labor Act. Allow us to strike anytime a contract is infringed upon, and let's see where a true free market gets us when we can shutdown the country's travel anytime we want if we're not happy. Check the value then. Allow us to truly get together and negotiate as one complete entity of 70,000 people at once. Free means free, and guarantee you that when those planes are parked management will come knocking. Right now they can hide behind the RLA for years pitting one group against another as well as get the courts to abrogate contracts, and that is why wages have fallen in the airlines. I agree a union is a necessary evil in our line of work, but you really need to stop and think about it for a second. Skybus, jetBlue, Virgin America etc. reflect how the free market treats airline pilots these days. |
Originally Posted by Flaps50
(Post 268768)
Dude you're crazy! Do you really believe that Management is at a disadvantage over labor when it comes to contract talks?
Maybe in a true free market, but in the US there are laws that lean to managements' side. In other places where they don't have labor laws the Army comes in and kills a few worker so everyone goes back to work. Actually that's happened here too. |
Originally Posted by fosters
(Post 268772)
Because we've artificially raised the pay rates, more people learn to fly, flooding the market with supply. Had those pay rates never been inflated, less pilots would have entered the marketplace, therefore reducing supply, increasing demand, and increasing the wage. No need for unions to do so. You can bet they wouldn't be anywhere near $300k/yr though.
You entire paragraph validates my statement. Going on strike, negotiating as one entity, etc. does NOT mean you are operating under a free market. In fact, you have the company, and the public, at bay. Look at what the NYC subway workers (or was it bus drivers?) did - went on strike and got what they wanted because they exerted their leverage. That doesn't sound very capitalist or free market-ism to me. I agree a union is a necessary evil in our line of work, but you really need to stop and think about it for a second. Skybus, jetBlue, Virgin America etc. reflect how the free market treats airline pilots these days. There are plenty of consortium style companies out there that use the masses to procure products and services at better rates. Does that mean they are "unionized". What's the difference. You'd be crazy not to use your leverage as a group. Believe me companies understand this. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:16 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands