Pinnacle pilots to strike?
 

Apparently enough is enough.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie...8000%5e1559068

9E pilots I stand with you and it's a shame that your management will let this be the last cause of action before they can do something to address the issue. Your Actions will not go un-noticed.

Good luck guys and I'm pulling for you, I hope they release you but I wouldn't hold my breath. Just look at ASA & NWA! But if they do it will be a real turning point, essentially giving labor groups their balls back.

"Good luck. We're all counting on you..."

When will the strike occur?

The NMB has to release the pilot group first before a strike can be scheduled. ASA was unable to strike and as long as we have an Mgmnt friendly administration on Capital Hill I fear that no one will ever be released.

I hope I'm wrong but so many have proven this to be so in the last 5+ years. Please correct me but I think that last labor group to be release was Comair. Anyone?

this is all correct. we have to wait for the nmb to release us to a cooling off period. what we are HOPING for is that if we can win our status quo lawsuit we wont need the mediators approval. if we can prove that the company is willfully violating our contract and trying to change it without mec approval then that is all we need.

You need approval to strike? I know it is illegal to strike if you are a government employee, but the private sector? Please fill me in.

Airlines fall under the Railway Labor Act to prevent disruption of the nation's transportation system. Considering the act was passed in 1926, one could argue it has long outlived its usefulness.

I'm pulling for you guys. It's good to see a unified pilot group out there.....now hopefully someone will have the opportunity to strike and show management that we're serious when we talk about pay/work rule improvements.

Judging from your history of vehemently anti-union posts I presumed that you were at least familiar with the provisions of the RLA, thats the Railway Labor Act by the way. You might want to check it out considering that it affects your profession...

I normally try to refrain from personal attacks but you have repeatedly made posts criticizing our efforts in attempting to achieve a fair contract, notably picketing. If you are going to take such a position, that is fine and I respect every individuals right to have an educated opinion. However I can not respect somebody who does not understand the most basic concepts that affect the industry yet is in the habit of making posts such as these:

I believe that at some point you also compared airline unions to the mob...

Originally Posted by texaspilot76 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
Correct me if I am wrong here, but from what I read, Lorenzo built what is known as the modern Continental, which alot of our fellow pilots work for and has been voted #1 airline in America by several entities. How can that be so bad?

OMG! What kind of revisionist history are you reading?

Frank Lorenzo nearly destroyed Continental! How many other people in history have ever been BANNED by the federal government from ever owning an airline again?

Gordon Bethune saved Continental from the edge of a liquidation and turned the post-Lorenzo ugly duckling into a beautiful swan with grit, hard work, and a lot of employee sacrifice. Read "Worst to First" if you want to see what a mess Lorenzo left for Gordon.

Let's see. You "read" that Lorenzo built the modern Continental. You've never heard of the Railway Labor Act. What the h*** do you know about your profession anyways? Not a whole lot, it seems.

Is texaspilot76 for real?? i was looking for that quote about continental but couldn't find it. is he really saying that lorenzo made continental what it is today?? they same guy who is barred from having anything to do with the airline industry??? and then he doesn't even know that our industry falls under the RLA wether you belong to a union or not...

Would it surprise anyone to know that companies sometimes put spies/moles on internet forums...particularly when there is considerable friction between mgmt and labor?

I'm not saying texaspilot76 is...

Of course I have heard of the Railway Act, but I never understood it to prevent unions from striking. From what i understand, government employees are the only ones that are not allowed to strike.

All I was asking was when the strike started. I am hoping they do, because I am very interested to see what happens. I was not inviting all these slams that you people decided to throw on me.

As far as my previous posts, such as the post regarding Eastern, was gathered from information I researched in college, plus from a video I saw about the history of Eastern and airline deregulation. The video was very unbiased. Lorenzo alone was not the ONLY reason Eastern folded. The beligerant labor unions also had a factor in the demise of Eastern. Even then, Eastern probably wouldn't have survived the era of deregulation.

I respect you guys opinions, however, I do not appreciate the attacks. I would never belittle you despite that I may not share your beliefs.

Oh, and since you brought up the mob comment, that was in reference to union guys ganging up on pilots that didn't share the same beliefs with them by denying jumpseats. That is totally wrong.

I could care less if Pinnacle strikes or not. I don't work there, it has no effect on me whatsoever. I am just curious to see what happens. I have not seen a strike at the airlines since i got into the business. With the current pilot shortage, I assume Pinnacle can't afford to fire everyone that strikes and replace them. I am real curious to what they will do.

My friend....you leave a lot to be desired. I don't work for PNCL, but I feel hurt with your comments. If your airline was in the same situation you would be receiving alot of support from your fellow pilots at other airlines. It's a industry standard that has been lowered by management and it affects us all. You sound like someone who would step on their fellow pilot group just to get ahead. Are you a Gojetter!!! You did'nt feel a thing when you walked over TSA, when they where in the same boat as 9E. I guess you don't mind going to fly their CRJ900's if they strike!

For all the PNCL guys and girls on this thread push on with getting the release from the NMB and stick it to management where it hurts the most. Most of us SJS guys are right behind you. We all walk the same path.

The average person only works for Pinch a nickle for maybe 4 years. The goal is to build time and get the hell out. People who go there knowing exactly what they are getting into. Why not just work for a better place and let the company sink.

Still...people go there and we end up with jackasses flying 90 seat equipment for sixty grand a year(pinnacle, mesa) allowing the mainline to reduce jobs, completely screwing every other pilot out there out of a decent living wage. What was the profession paying for 90 seats 15 years ago? How will this trend end? Same wages as that of a bus or truck driver? Good luck with the second job.

What exactly is the Strike for anyway? Anything specific? 3 dollars more per hour? Good luck!!

FYI the Railway Labor Act is the exact reason we are not allowed overtime pay.

Can't somebody just go on strike and challenge the RLA in court? Anybody tried that yet?

Thanks to President Regan ....your day in court fighting the RLA will be an unfruitful event. Just ask a few ATC controllers who striked in the 80's.

Just do it in California. The Ninth Circuit does some crazy things.

Texaspilot76 -

In light of the fact that you may be fairly new to the industry I will attempt to cut you some slack. The notion that a strike does not affect you is ludicrous. Look at what happened to Comair after the strike. They completely paralyzed Delta at CVG and MCO. One of the fallouts from the strike was that Delta along with nearly every other major airline diversified their regional fleets. This meant instead of one or two regionals serving an airline you have multiple regionals performing the flying.

Does that impact you? Absolutely. Management at every regional is feeling the squeeze because of the highly competitive marketplace right now. "Comair you won't operate the RJ for x amount of dollars then Pinnacle will. Or maybe Skywest. How about Expressjet?"

Want to negotiate a raise in a new contract? Ask ASA, Pinnacle, Comair, anyone post 9/11 how easy that is. The Comair strike set a president and was a benchmark contract that they hoped other regionals would follow. Instead no one got close. 9/11 hit and they were affected like everyone else. As DAL now had multiple regionals at every hub there was no longer leverage in negotiations. No regional has it anymore. So yes, that strike still impacts you nearly seven years after it happened.

When a strike happens its not an 8th grade school yard fight. You are literally putting your financial security, job security and well being at risk. You are betting that management and the union will come to an agreement before the company is dissolved. If there is no agreement, ask the Eastern guys how hard it was to find a job following the demise. Many of them never were able to secure employment as a pilot again. By authorizing a strike, you are letting the union know you stand behind them should they call on you to withdraw your services. You are telling management that you would rather risk everything than work under your current agreement and working conditions. A strike is the most powerful tool a union has but it should only be used as a last resort. Truthfully, a strike indicates that both sides failed in their duties to negotiate a contract.

The Comair strike succeeded because the pilot group went 89 days with no scabs. There was total solidarity among the group. I'm not sure if that would be repeated today. I reference your remarks about how it doesn't affect you. No offense but that is the mantra of the "me" Y generation. Only looking out for number one. As a result, since most regionals are now comprised of the Ys, they will have a harder time motivating everyone to stay the course for the union not the individual. Time will tell.

[quote=texaspilot76;274994]
I could care less if Pinnacle strikes or not. I don't work there, it has no effect on me whatsoever./quote]

Whoa there, cowboy! Whether Pinnacle pilots go on strike and what kind of settlement they get affects EVERY regional pilot. Pinnacle currently has some of the lowest FO wages of any regional. If 9E pilots can succeed in getting a better-than-average or industry-leading contract, they will be doing their part and more to raise the bar for ALL regional pilots. That's why they have my wholehearted support and should have everyone's.

You said, "I would never belittle you despite that I may not share your beliefs." Sorry, but by saying you don't care if PCL strikes or not, you ARE belittling your Pinnacle brethren, and helping degrade the entire profession.

Ask some of your more experienced peers about the Comair strike. They stood up for the entire profession. Unfortunately, many of their gains were wiped out after 9/11. But they took a stand, and all regional pilots benefited.

so when were you fired from pinnacle???

i don't consider the people i fly with to be jackasses. we don't have payrates for the 90 seater yet because we didn't take managements offer. so a arbitrator will decide the pay rates for us. hopefully he isn't already in bed with management and we might actually get a fair shake. sorry you got terminated, hopefully things will work out better in your second job.

"Reagan Tower, xxx/xxx ILS 01"

"Aircraft calling DCA N_A_T_I_O_N_A_L Tower, cleared to land runway 01..."

Jackasses? Resorting to name calling is real professional... Remember that not only Pinnacle but the majority of regionals are flying 700/900s and other main line type aircraft. Mesaba, Compass, ASA etc. to name a few. As unpopular as this comment is going to be, let us not forget who originally gave up the scope on the RJs in the first place.

At Pinnacle, we do not have a pay rate for the 900 yet because we refused to accept sub standard wages. We do not have a contract yet because we refused to accept sub standard wages, work rules etc. We are willing to strike in order to achieve our goals. And FYI, many of the pilots whose commute would be made much easier by being based in ATL (900 flying) did not and will not bid that flying until we have an acceptable pay scale and/or contract.

We are trying our best to do our part to raise the bar. What we need in this industry at this critical time is more solidarity and less finger pointing / infighting.

Best,

Wolf

Well summed up, Wolf!

I've read a bit on other threads about what would happen to a new-hire in the case of a strike, but nothing very well pulled together. Can someone shine some light on this...? I'm planning on applying this week after I get my ATP written knocked out (Btw- why is 9E still requiring this to apply...most others have dropped it), but the whole strike possibility makes me a bit nervous.

Hopefully if I would get hired and a strike happens, I would be rehired into a industry leading contract...right guys? Good Luck for all who are presently there, stick it out for the good of the industry.

I thought my post were reasonably "well pulled together" but perhaps not.:(

Just kidding... Read through these and some of the other posts on the threads and let us know if you need any more info. Good luck.

Thanks Wolf, for some reason I hadn't seen those posts by you on other treads.

Well, good luck everyone at 9E.

I'm still applying to 9E, strike or no strike. In fact, the overwhelming support for the strike makes me want to be a part of that pilot group even more. And if I'm hired I'll be on the picket line the second I pass my 121 checkride.

Speaking of which, anyone know if the strike auth has any effect on hiring? Will you guys still be hiring strong through Spring '08 or will mngmt put things on hold to see what happens?

Also, what would happen if NWA tried to give more of your flying to Mesaba or others...or would your agreement through 2017 w/NWA stand up regardless of any potential strike?

Good luck to you guys and I'll see you on the line if I get hired whether it's the flight line or the picket line.

no we will continue to hire as many pilots as we can. even uncle phil said that in his weekly address that we still need lots of pilots for current flying and for growth.

not sure on all the other stuff but rest assured that even if nwa gave more flying to mesaba, there will be plenty left for us to do.

Hold it there buddy!!! Wolf just had a post about being on probation which made alot of sense to all those that are goin to be new hires and all those that are on probation. We urge all probationary employees to support the rest of the pilot group. Just don't do any flying for the company while your fellow pilots are on strike. I urge you to have a "behind the scene" role during the strike. As mentioned earlier the union will not return to work if any probationary employess have been terminated for not wanting to fly. The last thing you want while on probation is to be seen in the picket line by management while you are on probation. The company will wait until the strike is over and will not have a problem ending your employment at that time. There will be nothing that the union can do to help you at that time.

So if you are new and still on probation, pitch a tent make some coffee or some sort of refreshments for your picketing fellow pilots and they will appreciate it and stay out of the spot light.

Oh...I get it. Thanks for the info. I was assuming you meant stay behind the scenes during training/ground school but then you could picket. You meant throughout probation.

So you can't be seen on the picket line as a probie, or they don't have to re-instate you when the pilot group goes back to work?

I'm still not supposed to go to work if that happens, right?

Oh well, all I know is I'd do plenty of talking with the union reps as a new hire to make sure I had my tail covered.

That's the best thing to do. Once you start ground school, the company must allow the union to come in and give you the ALPA presentation. You will find out who your union reps are and how to contact them. Your union reps will give you the most up to date and pertinent advice regarding all of your concerns.

As I've mentioned before, while you are on probation make sure to keep your nose clean, know your stuff, and remain professional at all times. I would also suggest reading the entire contract (which you will get a copy of) and understanding it thoroughly. Being a probationary pilot gives you the same rights as any other 9E pilot with the exception of not being able to vote on ALPA ballots and not being able to resort to the grievance process in the event that your employment is terminated in your first 365 days from the start of ground school. This does not mean that you should allow the company to walk all over you when they attempt to violate the contract. I would avoid making a huge scene about minor issues but do not let them violate provisions of the contract that have a major effect on your quality of life. Also remember that allowing the company to violate major provisions of the contract sets a precedent that will affect your fellow pilots as well. Knowing and exercising your contractual rights in regards to sitting reserve, extensions, reassignments, junior assignments, compensatory days off and pay are a few subjects that come to mind.