Upgrades?
 

So I'm wondering. Why are some airlines saying that they have 3 year upgrades and when I talk to some of their pilots, who are first officers, they have been woking for them for 5 years and still havent had an upgrade? Is it becasue of their pilot performance or is the 3 year upgrade a rough estimate for new hires?

Pilot performance???? Not sure what you mean.

When airline HR personnel discuss upgrades, they are likely giving you a projection for what you, as a new hire, can expect for upgrade given planned growth, expected retirements, pilot attrition, etc. It may not reflect what the current date of hire for the most recent upgrade class is.

Bear in mind, NOBODY can accurately predict upgrades, and anything that anyone tells you -- whether an airline executive, a pilot or a gypsy with a bag of potions -- is just a wild guess at best.

Regionals' growth can change on a moment's notice for a zillion reasons.

There are also various other factors such as the company's specific policies on the times you have to have to upgrade. Several companies (e.g. Pinnacle and Mesaba) essentially have "street captains" IF you meet their upgrade mins. Most companies also require you to have 1500+ total time calculated such that your total PIC time + half your SIC time equals at least 1200. This is due to the ICAO restriction placed on your ATP if you have below those numbers. If your regional operates outside the US, chances are they'll require a non-ICAO-restricted-ATP.

Example: Pinnacle will upgrade you at 1800 TT and 1300 with the company, or (I think) 3500 TT and 250 turbine? Not sure on that one.

With age 65 passing, it might be advisable to go to a regional where growth (i.e. new routes, new flying, new aircraft) drives upgrades more than attrition (i.e. a company who isn't getting any new planes any time soon, who only loses existing captains due to pilots going to majors, etc.). Also, while it's uncertain how age 65 will affect the industry, it'd be a good idea to be somewhere you wouldn't mind staying for 7-10 years.

You must have interviewed here at Horizon. Who knows, if age 65 happens then it will be even longer here. I believe that it is a recruiting thing why they say it and the koolaid just gets thicker.

Two more possibilities... some of the FO's you talk to may not upgrade ASAP. I waited a full year after I could have upgraded for better QOL. If money isn't an issue, senior FO life can be way better than junior CA life. Also, the stated upgrade times are for the most junior CA, which means the most junior base. So say you live in IAH and fly for XJT. Most junior CA may be ONT and you're not willing to commute or move. So the upgrade time may be 3 years in ONT but 4 years in IAH.

The majority of pilots at SkyWest don't take the first available upgrade.

Most junior captain at SkyWest just went to a March 07 DOH. Less than a year. About #2400 out of 2800+ on the seniority list. However, some 900 FO's senior to him decided they didn't want it or didn't meet the upgrade minimums. We've still got hundreds of FO's with 3-4+ years seniority that could, but haven't upgraded because they don't want to go to a junior domicle, or sit reserve in a senior one.

A misconception about regional flying (at least at SkyWest) is that everybody is chasing the quickest upgrade for the PIC time.

fully agree with the fo's not upgrading and waiting forever. Everything can change in an instant, especially with regionals. Lose a contract, and upgrades can stop for a year, or here at trans states a few years, people get downgraded. It's a horribly rough estimate. I'm elegible for upgrade and people to junior to me are upgrading now, and I was hired just over a year ago. I'm liking my QOL as a commuter as of now, and if people upgrade who are junior to me, it's less time for me to wait on reserve before a hardline as well!

Atreyu. How do you like trans states? I was thinking about applying to them. I have applied to ASA and PSA, but I have a buddy that applied there and told me it was a good company to fly for, as long as i dont go to GO Jet.

Ask the many, many posters on here (myself included) who found that there really was, in fact, a greener pasture on the other side...Stray from TSA...

You got it. Thanks for the heads up!

I totally agree.. unless you live in STL and dont have the time to go to CHQ, you should stay away from Hulas and TSA. It will make you jaded before you even know what hit you.. Experimental, did you get furloughed or were you like me and jump ship before they could get to you?

Actually, I owe my job there to those furloughs - I was one of the first hired after they realized that they had screwed that mess up big-time...so I did jump-ship and have never looked back :D

and i'm crying myself to sleep every night thinking....GOD, I'M STILL HERE!!! :p

The issue i'd be worried about on waiting for the upgrade, is there's nothing guaranteed. There's two sides to the coin, you have the good lines and tons of time off and are a senior FO. But if the upgrades suddenly cease, while you were enjoying the life, then you might be stuck in the right seat for a while. Other side of the coin, if the upgrades cease, and the recent upgrades are forced back to the right seat, then nothing changed in the first place, except you took another checkride, got an ATP, and are once again in the same seat you would have been flying had you not taken the upgrade...

All in all, upgrade time just depends on how you look at it, and what you plan on doing when your time comes around.

haha.. good man.. we all did what we could to add to Hulas's training costs.. It is unfortunate, however, that you missed out on the entire "minimum effort" movement. What a great time that was.. haha..

RAH will have some 1year 2month upgrades next month. :eek:

I still got to fly with some "minimum effort" guys LoL...I was also chastised repeatedly for trying to save Hulas a few pennies here or there...and for trying to get out on time!!

haha.. that sounds about right.. what a miserable existence that was.. But that's what you get when you're employed by management that has no idea how to treat people or motivate employees.

One of the classics right when GoJet got started and we were still trying to prove that it was the same company: the drug lady caught up with us and gave a random test to our FA, and while we were waiting, I was talking to her and found out that management "reassigned" her to Trans States Holdings. Which meant her work load doubled (as she was now in charge of TSA and GoJet), but her pay remained the same.. haha.. absolutely ridiculous..