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Pinnacle Questions
I am from the Minneapolis area and am preparing to retire from the military. I have just over 6000 hours and over half of that is multi engine fixed wing turbine time.
I was looking at Pinnacle and saw they were doing some very fast upgrades with their captains. According to APC here, July 07 is when their most junior captain was hired. What would the qualifications be in order to upgrade that quickly for a guy like that? I exceed their present requirements for FO and if I could get a quck upgrade like that, I would be interested in learning more about them. I WANT to be back home in Minny and ideally, Minneapolis. I have been flying for 21 years throughout this great world of ours. The flying would be easy for me. I am not seeing alot of opportunity in the Minnesota area for people like me at the present. I want my kids to live there while they are still at home. BTW, I have had an application in with NWA and Sun Country for several months now and haven't heard a thing. I do exceed both of their requirements as well. Thanks in advance to all who reply. |
if you are truly as competitive as you are, i would hold out for NWA. maybe get on with Pinnacle just to pass training and get some current 121 time, but i think you'll get the call sooner or later from NWA. i've had several friends get a call from NWA with lower time and half decent connections.
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I have the hours I say I do. I have no inside connections though. Thanks for your reply.
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what were you flying in the military if you don't mind me asking?
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what about netjets??
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One of my Navy buddys went to Pinnicle for the same reasons.. retired, lots of hours, from that area etc.. hated the training and the mgmt so bad he quit before his sim check and went for Net Jets. The opportunity at Pinnicle is there, but I hear it's run by a bunch of clowns... if you don't mind putting up with the BS for a period to reach your end goal it will work.
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Originally Posted by mccube5
(Post 299189)
what were you flying in the military if you don't mind me asking?
King Air 200's I have an application into NetJets as well. NWA, Sun Country, NetJets, and Pinnacle would all allow me to get back home. I have alot of applications out there at the moment. Thanks for the replys. |
Originally Posted by 9999
(Post 299266)
King Air 200's
I have an application into NetJets as well. NWA, Sun Country, NetJets, and Pinnacle would all allow me to get back home. I have alot of applications out there at the moment. Thanks for the replys. |
I would not go to Pinnacle. You will never hold MSP captain. MSP base is shrinking. There hasn't been a MSP Captain vacancy in a while, and there will not be one for a while. There hasn't been a MSP FO opening in a while as well. I would guess it would be over a year before you could hold MSP.
As other have said... NETJETS! |
PNCL will get better after we get a contract, until then I would not encourage people to come here. With your time and the 1000TPIC column filled I would look elsewhere. This place is great if you need 1000TJPIC otherwise its just a war zone with the current contract and mgmt in place. Good luck to you- it is a pilot's market right now!
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Mesaba
I'm suprised nobody mentioned Mesaba, they are in minny and things are moving really fast, also the CRJ900 is going more junior than anybody thought for FOs and CAs. In PNCL there have been no vacancies for CA of FOs in minny and I know there's a fairly long list. Also Mesaba is hiring street CA, PNCL is not, you can upgrade after 100hrs in the right seat but with the last vacancy I didn't see many junior FOs upgrading, seems like attrition is slowing down in PNCL. I would seriously consider Mesaba if NW mainline is not an option for you. I have a friend with about 4K turboprop time getting a call from NW mainline and he doesn't have any contacts there, just threw in an application and gave them a call. Have you applied at all?
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Thank you for all the replies and the information. I appreciate it very much.
I do have my applications in with Sun Country, NWA and Net Jets. I will look at Mesaba as well. For some reason I was thinking they were only prop and I am ready for some jet flying. I have been flying props long enough. With that said, I would fly anything that paid half way decent to get back home though. I believe beggars can't be choosers (spelling?). I have a family and need to make some money in order to be able to support them. My military income can be a supplement but upgrading to captain quickly would really help. I am not very familiar with how the reserve works. Are you paid wether you fly or not on reserve? I am thinking that is what that schedule is for, am I wrong? I guess I could easily live on reserve as long as it was with MSP as my base. I would buy a place close to Bloomington to make it livable. Thank you for all the replies. I want to get home before my kids get old enough to leave the house. I want them to get a piece of Minny before that happens. |
Looks like Mesaba hires right into the Saab. Anyone able to forecast a estimated upgrade time in the CRJ for a candidate like me?
Here is a quick breakdown of my current MEL turbine time. It is all unfactored military time. Thanks King Air 200 Time Hours: 3043 Total 1307 PIC 400 Instructor Pilot 790 Instrument 193 Night 353 Day 141 Simulator |
You're golden after a year of captain time in a 121 operation. Pinnacle would be a fast way to do it, however, there is a possibility of a strike, which could possibly delay you building your hours (either your 357 hours required to get up to 3500, or your captain time to get to a major).
Mesaba would be a safer bet, however, you also have to consider that you're pretty close to being competitive at NWA mainline. If you go to Mesaba, I'd imagine you'd have to stay in line if they finalize their flowthrough...otherwise the company would probably be reluctant to hire you because it might be in violation of their flowthrough agreement since you stepped over the guys ahead of you. If you went to Pinnacle, upgraded quicly to Capt, and had your 121 PIC time up, you could go to NWA whenever they gave you a look... That's the backside of flowthrough agreements that no one ever talks about--the fact that it turns getting hired at the major/parent company into an issue of seniority vs. qualifications. You're close enough to an NWA mainline job anyways, that I wouldn't risk having to wait in line at Mesaba if I were you. |
Thanks. I will have to do some more research and see what is the best way to proceed. Those times I posted are all unfactored times. That means it is military time which starts from wheels in the well to engine shutdown. Alot of carriers will give you .2 (NetJets) to .3 (Southwest) for every hour. This is supposed to get you in the ball park to what you would have logged on the civilian side.
Thanks again for your comments and information. I appreciate them. BTW, I don't remember NWA giving a factor for military time. Does anyone know if they do or not? I am pretty certain the flight hours I input to NWA were not factored. |
Hey I just want to make sure everyone here knows that PNCL will upgrade you at 2500TT if you meet ATP requirements and have considerable turbine experience. I am in line for upgrade - says everyone here. I'm still in training and they are telling me to expect to get it if I bid it. It is very true though that you must have 100 in the right seat before you can attend training for CA.
However, if you come here you run the risk of a strike while on probation which can get ugly. Yeah no one will return to work until you are hired back, but how long could it take? And what if they fire you for "something else"? If I had known the strike was THIS close to the horizon, I would have chosen Mesaba. My $0.02 |
look into Compass as well. I don't know much about them but I know everyone is expected to upgrade quickly as the jets show up. I think their main base is MSP. Its worth looking into.
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I wouldn't come to Pinnacle if you want to go to NWA. Very few Pinnacle pilots are even getting an interview. I personally know many Pinnacle pilots who are more than qualified for NWA and have their apps in. Of those, I only know of one who has even gotten an interview. I don't know if he got the job. I know some guys have left Pinnacle, gone somewhere else and then applied to NWA. They got an interview...
In any case, as others have mentioned why would you put yourself in the position of coming to Pinnacle now and possibly facing a strike during training/probation??? If you want MSP, I'd try Mesaba or Compass. You might want to talk to some Mesaba guys though. I understand MSP is pretty senior and you might have a tough time holding it especially if you're going to be a junior Captain. Good luck. |
Although MSP is currently senior for Mesaba, that may change as Pinnacle continues to transfer the 15 MSP-based -200s to Mesaba.
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[quote=cruiseclimb;299260] The opportunity at Pinnicle is there, but I hear it's run by a bunch of clowns...quote]
It is run by clowns. http://www.theneitherworld.com/bugs/main.htm |
Originally Posted by nicholasblonde
(Post 299769)
If you go to Mesaba, I'd imagine you'd have to stay in line if they finalize their flowthrough...otherwise the company would probably be reluctant to hire you because it might be in violation of their flowthrough agreement since you stepped over the guys ahead of you.
Originally Posted by 9999
(Post 299733)
Looks like Mesaba hires right into the Saab. Anyone able to forecast a estimated upgrade time in the CRJ for a candidate like me?
Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot
(Post 299775)
Hey I just want to make sure everyone here knows that PNCL will upgrade you at 2500TT if you meet ATP requirements and have considerable turbine experience.
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Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot
(Post 299775)
Hey I just want to make sure everyone here knows that PNCL will upgrade you at 2500TT if you meet ATP requirements and have considerable turbine experience. I am in line for upgrade - says everyone here. I'm still in training and they are telling me to expect to get it if I bid it. It is very true though that you must have 100 in the right seat before you can attend training for CA.
However, if you come here you run the risk of a strike while on probation which can get ugly. Yeah no one will return to work until you are hired back, but how long could it take? And what if they fire you for "something else"? If I had known the strike was THIS close to the horizon, I would have chosen Mesaba. My $0.02 3500 Street Capt 3000 with 500 at PCL 2500 with 1000 at PCL 1500 if flown with 3 mentor captains and received the endorsement but remember 2000 multi is also required. If you have 250 PIC...OE is only 25 hours Less than 250 PIC requires 50 hrs OE |
Originally Posted by bertengineer
(Post 300130)
Yes 2500 Total, but 1000 of the time has to have been at Pinnacle. Read netween the lines. It is on the bid pack.
3500 Street Capt 3000 with 500 at PCL 2500 with 1000 at PCL 1500 if flown with 3 mentor captains and received the endorsement but remember 2000 multi is also required. If you have 250 PIC...OE is only 25 hours Less than 250 PIC requires 50 hrs OE -- Still don't recommend coming here though, as I've said before. Seems like a great company with a management that takes a different "view" as how to run it. |
Originally Posted by gbntpilot
(Post 300001)
Very true. Just for your information: The Mesaba flowthrough has been finalized and the initial list of pilots who have submitted their bid to flow or not was posted a few days ago. The names even have the month they're expected to flow all the way through December 2008. The top 50 or so on the list have mostly opted out of the flow with a few exceptions. Most of those pilots are too old for a flow to be worth it to them. But, from about seniority number 100 down to the bottom (~1000) an overwhelming majority has opted to flow when eligible. Just to clairfy, the list I'm referring to only lists those who have submitted a yes or no bid. There are many others who have not given a preference yet. But, with other carriers like Delta and US Airways publishing minimums of 1200-1500 TT with no PIC turbine required and only an ATP written, I'm not sure how many of the younger pilots (especially newer FOs) who opted in will actually wait around to use the flow to NWA. Still, I wouldn't count on using the flowthrough as a definite way to get into Northwest, and would assume that nicholasblonde is correct -- it would be very hard to jump ship from Mesaba up to NWA with that flowthrough agreement in place.
On the most recent award, pilots with seniority numbers in the 600 range were being awarded captain slots on the CRJ-900. If you were hired in the next few months, you'd probably be one of the first group of pilots at Mesaba with a seniority number over 1000 to start with. Movement into the CRJ is going a lot faster than anyone had thought, but there's a lot of factors that go into that such as the addition of MEM as a 900 domicile, seat locks being released for Saab captains to move to the RJ, new plane orders, how many 200s actually come over to Mesaba, etc. The bottom line is this; if you were hired as a street captain, it would be on the Saab (which is still a great airplane). Officially, you'd have a 2 year seat lock, and a one year training contract to fulfill before you could leave. So, to answer your question, it would probably be two years before you'd see a CRJ if you were hired as a Saab street captain. But, you could always take it and roll the dice on getting that seat locked released if you had the seniority to hold a CRJ position and they needed to fill the class. Of course, that's like having one shot at rolling snake-eyes on two 100-sided dice. Right now Mesaba is upgrading at 1500TT and hiring captains off the street. Right now the sweet place for a person looking to street captain is indeed mesaba. You'll have fun with the seniority list for awhile, but hey if you are alright with it, then I would be signing up too. I just don't want to waste another 2 months of my life in training! |
Just recieved an invite for an interview at Pinnacle....looking to upgrade in 5-6 months...have the TT, ME time and over 2500 in the RJ. currently a 4 year CRJ FO at a regional that apparently is downsizing.....very long til upgrades.
Do we really think it's going to come down to a strike?? Don't want to leave a job to be on the street....but i dont want to be an FO in year 6. help? |
Originally Posted by Tonne
(Post 300275)
Just recieved an invite for an interview at Pinnacle....looking to upgrade in 5-6 months...have the TT, ME time and over 2500 in the RJ. currently a 4 year CRJ FO at a regional that apparently is downsizing.....very long til upgrades.
Do we really think it's going to come down to a strike?? Don't want to leave a job to be on the street....but i dont want to be an FO in year 6. help? |
Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot
(Post 300282)
The answer is simple: NETJETS - Starting pay $69k/yr FO 18 day pref bid - 100 cities to choose from or $58/yr FO 7 on and 7 off... I think it's a no-brainer.
Now....anyone from Pinnacle have any help? |
Originally Posted by Tonne
(Post 300292)
Apparently you missed the part about me wanting to upgrade. I don't want to be an FO for NetJets. I want to upgrade at a regional so i can move on to my promised interview at a major.
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Originally Posted by Tonne
(Post 300292)
Now....anyone from Pinnacle have any help? Think about it. I didn't think it was so close. But apparently no one knows how close we are anymore now that 9E has filed against ALPA. |
Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot
(Post 300338)
Yeah... don't come here. Pretty simple. If the major requires PIC turbine time, alright then maybe. But what if they remove that limitation once they are desperate for pilots? It's happened elsewhere.... Just think, making more $ as an FO than a CA makes here at 9E. And until the majors DO hire without PIC limits, you won't be suffering with a company that is bent on keeping the same 9 year old contract (roughly). Who knows, by the time we get a contract, you might be at a major. Or you could start here, finish training, and then wind up on the street during a strike.
Think about it. I didn't think it was so close. But apparently no one knows how close we are anymore now that 9E has filed against ALPA. |
Originally Posted by bertengineer
(Post 300130)
Yes 2500 Total, but 1000 of the time has to have been at Pinnacle. Read netween the lines. It is on the bid pack.
3500 Street Capt 3000 with 500 at PCL 2500 with 1000 at PCL 1500 if flown with 3 mentor captains and received the endorsement but remember 2000 multi is also required. If you have 250 PIC...OE is only 25 hours Less than 250 PIC requires 50 hrs OE The absolute minimums are 2000TT, 1500 Pinnacle with 100 hours minimum in the mentor program. You can not upgrade at 1500TT unless they are unofficially allowing it which I have heard nothing of.
Originally Posted by Tonne
(Post 300275)
Just recieved an invite for an interview at Pinnacle....looking to upgrade in 5-6 months...have the TT, ME time and over 2500 in the RJ. currently a 4 year CRJ FO at a regional that apparently is downsizing.....very long til upgrades.
Do we really think it's going to come down to a strike?? Don't want to leave a job to be on the street....but i dont want to be an FO in year 6. help? |
is Pinnacle in Mediation?
And do you only get 10 days off on RSV every month? or is it more for a 31 day month? AND how much are the RSV CAs used? do you ever sit a day? or do you fly everyday? |
Originally Posted by Tonne
(Post 300629)
is Pinnacle in Mediation?
And do you only get 10 days off on RSV every month? or is it more for a 31 day month? AND how much are the RSV CAs used? do you ever sit a day? or do you fly everyday? (2) RSV pilots are guaranteed ten days off per bid period. Expect to be junior manned frequently and then have your requests for compensatory days off (due to being reduced below ten days off) routinely denied due to "staffing". As a junior Captain you can expect to be on RSV for a long time. I don't want to sound like a curmudgeon as there are some good things about this place, notably a good and united pilot group overall and a quick upgrade/seniority movement. If you wanted a place to upgrade quickly, build 121 PIC quickly and didn't mind the prospect of being on RSV for a long time I would have suggested coming here before. However with all the uncertainty, at the present time I don't think it would be a smart move. I hope this helps and best of luck. I've gotta sign off, early show in the morning. Some of you may be interested in this information regarding the RLA: http://www.nmb.gov/mediation/faq-mediation.html |
Originally Posted by Tonne
(Post 300629)
is Pinnacle in Mediation?
And do you only get 10 days off on RSV every month? or is it more for a 31 day month? AND how much are the RSV CAs used? do you ever sit a day? or do you fly everyday? |
Originally Posted by Tonne
(Post 300629)
is Pinnacle in Mediation?
And do you only get 10 days off on RSV every month? or is it more for a 31 day month? AND how much are the RSV CAs used? do you ever sit a day? or do you fly everyday? Happens all the time. Reserve Capts are always calling in "hey , what do you have for me!" |
has anyone been through recent new hiring training that can give me some details?? where is it? will i need a car? how long? what days of the week? PM me if you have any info please.
i have accepted my fate and know it will suck. i was on reserve 2 1/2 years already and it sucked every second of that 2 1/2 years. |
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