To regional or not to regional?
 

Hey guys, as most here I want to one day fly for a US major, I am a dual citizen of the US and Panama and have been offered the opportunity to fly for Copa Airlines based in Panama City, PTY, the equipment would be either 737-700-800 or E190.

The airline flies all around Latin America and also flies to MIA, MCO, IAD, JFK, and LAX in the US. They are very healthy financially; but QOL is not that great with 5 day trips on a constant basis and pay is better than the US regionals but not up to par with US majors.

I could also apply to US regionals, but I am at a crossroads, and am worried that when the time comes to apply for US majors they will not take me into considerations since I have not flown for a US airline. Would that affect me?

I also wonder if I should try and get on the 737 as US majors would appreciate a 737 TR or would the E190 do just the same?

Any imput is appreciated.

In my opinion I would think that getting the heavier jet time and flying internationally would open more doors, the QOL wouldn't be that much worse than a lot of US regionals. My crystal ball is pretty cloudy but I would think you'd have a better chance flying for COPA flying bigger iron than slogging it out at a regional - I don't think the non us flying would affect you in that case.

a buddy of mine is on ioe at copa and was telling me how his IOE captain was chewing him out for asking when to tell the FA's to sit down going into jfk. From the other guys he has talked to all the captains are like that. He is a citizen of Panama and has been totally shocked by the corporate culture there. He is actually pretty upset that he couldnt get a work visa to get a job with a regional in the us. The flying he does there is difficult, no radar, bad radios, and no one speaks english on the frequencies. (He was yelled at for calling up carracas center in english by his IOE captain.) Also he was telling me that his sim partner had 300 and 50 with no instrument skills. I was shocked and disgusted to think that they are putting brand new commercial pilots into the right seat of a 737. I know here we debate is it safe and practical to put them in the right seat of a crj or saab but a 737. I personally think you can go and have one hell of an adventure with them or do the more common regional route in the US.

It all depends on who you get for your IOE, I also have a friend that is doing IOE with Copa and he loves it, he tells me that the airline is trying to implement english only coms but there are a few dinosaur captains out there that are holding out and refuse to speak to ATC in english. I think it is a problem that will go away in time, my buddy is panamanian but he learned to fly in the US so speaking in spanish on the radios for him is unnatural and he even talks in english at PTY. He tells me most Copa pilots now talk in english on the radios.

Some places, like Panama, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Chile have very good aviation facilites, but others are very challenging indeed, it is good experience though, check out this video of an approach into TGU, Tegucigalpa, honduras.

fun, to say the least. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVAeJ661A_o

As far as their hiring standards go the minimum to get in is 250TT 10 Multi,
and yes I have heard horror stories regarding some of the new hires, but from what my friend told me they usually end up washing out, he says training was tough and a lot of people didnt make it past the sim. I guess if you pass your sim ride and IOE you are ready to fly, experience is gained over time.

I'd go, get the experience and maybe a 737 type out of the deal. Flying is like any job. You're gonna fly with some people that drive you nuts and you're gonna fly with people that are awesome. The experience is what you make of it. Some crusty old IOE captain telling you to speak Spanish even though its contrary to company policy shouldn't be a deterant to what could be a valuable job and life experience. Some times you gotta man up and tell those old SOBs that they're wrong. Sometimes they'll become whiny babies about it but usually they will respect you for having the cajones to speak up for what you think is right.

Whats the upgrade time like there? I can't believe those hiring mins. I think I had 250/10 before I even had my CFI.

I was behind an Aladia 757 in Vegas, I swear the FO messed up a cleared for takeoff instruction. This kind of culture of on the job training that airlines in SA have isn't really appealing and from what I've heard from pilots that fly into Mexico and beyond the flying isn't all that great especially since ATC sucks. Also I really doubt that you'd have an edge over at the majors because you flew a narrow body in SA. You obviously need TPIC, don't know if youre upgrading at Copa. Also some airlines like Fedex require that you flew for a U.S carrier. I'd probably stick to the states, yea you'll fly barbie jets but at least they're as technologically advanced and there's a lot of flying.

Upgrade time is about 3 years, and I am confident that as more new pilots come in the old a hole captains will have to eventually adapt or move away.

How about you...KEEP YOUR BUTT AT FIT!!!.....;)........just kidding!! "FIT29"...hmmmm.......is this Luis???

I would think the narrowbody and international time would be attractive to US majors. A few things to consider...

- Have you lived and worked much in the US (in ANY sort of job)? If so, the US airlines would probably view you as an american who happens to hold panamanian citizenship. If you have served in the US military, that would be great. If you have lived and worked mostly in Panama, then some folks might wonder if you would experience a big cultural shift in the US.

- One advantage to a US regional would be that you would meet folks who could later help you network into a major airline job. You may not make many connections like that in Panama.

- What happens if you don't get hired by a US Major? Where would you rather end up? US Rregional or Copa?

-I have lived and worked in the US for about 3 years, most of my life I spent in Panama, but it wouldnt be too much of a culture shock, Life is not too different in the two countries and I have adapted well here.

The rest of my life I have lived in Panama, and I consider Panama my home, that doesnt mean I dont like or appreciate the US, on the contrary, I have great respect for this country and wouldnt mind living here, although I miss the hectic lifestyle of Panama City so Melbourne florida aint gonna cut it... ;)

- I had not thought about the connections and that is a very good point.

-If I could not get hired by a US major I would definatly stay in Copa, and this is exactly what I want to avoid, keep my options open, not stuck with one company forever and ever and ever.

Hey smoothlander, you got me, how's mesaba treating you?

It will be good, once I start training..:cool:...I start there in March. Hey were you talking about Andres earlier? How is he doing at COPA? Is he done with training and stuff?

Hey whatever decision you make, goodluck with it!

Whats Copa's pay scale? Just curious.

I'd go for the bigger plane. You'll get good international experience, which exposes you to more than just vanilla FAA ATC. I'd think you'd be a more attractive candidate for a mojor since you have experience with a bigger jet.

Ditto on the 737...But make sure you can fit yourself into Copa's culture before you sign on the dotted line. Good luck!

Hey fit29 I want to know if you could give me the following info.
Do you need to be a Panamenian citizen to apply for COPA ?
How does it work for southamerican pilots,do we need to get a Panamenian licenses?
How many hours total do I need to apply?
Thanks

I know for a fact that for Panamanians to apply the minimum hours are 250T-10M, those are the posted minimums on their website, I know someone that was hired without being panamanian but that person had more hours than that.

I only have a Panamanian private so I would have to get my FAA certs converted since the planes are registered in Panama, I dont know how that process works, I will get to that in the near future.

My recommendation would be to apply at the website and see what happens

As far as pay pilots recently got a pay raise, but the first six months during training are brutal, with a training salary of only 600 bucks a month.

After that it goes up to around 3-4K a month depending on how much you get in travel expenses, fliying about 90 hours a month.

Smoothlander, my friend is doing great, still in IOE but he is grounded right now, since his captain is busy checking out a new captain.

OK thank you for the info.I have a commercial license from Argentina with instrument and multienginewith a total of 568 hours.
Now Im working on getting my FAA certificates and see what happens here or outside the usa.

I think it will come down to what are you willing to deal with as far as Quality of life QOL. I had an oportunity to fly the Shorts360 and get tpic time but as it turned out the QOL would really bite. 5 days on, 15 hr duty and 7 days off per month. Don't get me wrong you have to pay your dues anywhere but at least, over time, at a good regional you can build a decent schedule. Also, with the rate many regionals are hireing you should move up the ladder sooner rather than later. Otherwise you have to deal with the 5 day on and 2 off for life crapliner for a couple years.

Regional or not to Regional....? NOT....they suck....doesn't matter which one you go to!!!!!!!! Enjoy sucka

very informative and mature post :rolleyes:

I would take the job with Copa. Heavier equipment, good international experience (all over North, Central, South America). The US airlines don't care if you fly for a US regional or not. There's got to be at least 15,000 regional pilots in the US with the same goal, try ot stand apart from the bunch.

FIT 29, do you know anyone at COPA? Did you go to Panama?

Well said...

I did go to Panama, I was not too impressed with the organizational culture there, but it still seemed like an ok place to work but I feel I would be better treated in the US, I have an interview with a Regional here and lets see how that goes.

I knew a guy a few years back who was forced to retire (age 60) at SWA... then got hired as CA on 73 at COPA... he was saying that the FO's stay FO's... thats why they hire so many direct captains... that was about a year ago. He ended up leaving ground school to take a desk job at SWA... so not sure if thats still the case or not but if I were you I would triple check on that.

Fit 29,

I can't PM yet. Do you know how much they pay now. I want it as an alternative in case Regionals stop completly hiring. Where can I get more info about them...Thank you