Reservists at regionals
 

Hey all,
Might be looking to get hired at a regional when I come off orders this month. Just curious how reservists are delt with at your particular airline? Any hangups? Any insights appreciated at any regional!

Deleted, completely misinterpreted the question, my bad.

No problems so far. Half my class was Air Guard, AF Reserve, or Army (like me).

Two regionals, no real problems so far. Legally, they are pretty limited in what they can do to you, but if they wanted to be nasty they could turn off your travel benefits when you're on orders. The first time mesa did that to me on a DWE, I called the duty CP and told him I would not be able to make my show time the following morning, but I would be willing to return to work as soon as they re-activated my travel bennies. They had no reserves so they canx my flights, but they never tried that crap again.

SKW requests that you submit your leave "request" prior to the first for the following month...this allows them to pre-assign it in PBS, otherwise you might have an ackward interuption point in a trip. This usually works well for me, although I did explain to them that I would not always be able to notify them that early.

The key is to understand the rules and your rights...be cooperative to the greatest extend possible (early notice, don't do AT in late DEC every year, etc).

But always reserve the right to do what you need in order to do your duty, further your military career, and take care of your finances. I will be flexible with the airline as long as I don't interfere with those things. You are a commodity to the airline, so don't take anything too personally with them. It's not a real job where you're the only, or best suited, person for certain tasks.

Diesel,
Part of a repost on your legal rights for a FYI. There is a federal law that mandates that every employer regardless of size treats you uniformly with regard to your reserve duties.
Have extensive experience working with an employer and the Uniformed Services Employment and Remployment Rights Act (USERRA). The Department of Labor (DOL) administers the law through their Veterans Employment & Training Service (VETS) whose job is designed to
" provide veterans and transitioning service members with the resources and services to succeed in the 21st century workforce by maximizing their employment opportunities, protecting their employment rights and meeting labor-market demands with qualified veterans today." They also handle complaints of all of us employees.

Here is the statute: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/military/statute.htm or http://www.esgr.org/files/userra.pdf
UNIFORMED SERVICES EMPLOYMENT
AND
REEMPLOYMENT RIGHTS ACT OF 1994


Airlines however, can be woefully ignorant of the law. We are working hard where I am working to work through the challenges such as this one. Different company, same USERRA Law.
Here is the most important clause, it is the section that makes sure all of us knotheads will still serve Uncle Sam. Since we are all volunteers, Sam needs to give us cover to keep a civilian job. Just like the VETS mission statement <g>


§ 4311. Discrimination against persons who serve in the uniformed services and acts of reprisal prohibited (a) A person who is a member of, applies to be a member of, performs, has performed, applies to perform, or has an obligation to perform service in a uniformed service shall not be denied initial employment, reemployment, retention in employment, promotion, or any benefit of employment by an employer on the basis of that membership, application for membership, performance of service, application for service, or obligation. (b) An employer may not discriminate in employment against or take any adverse employment action against any person because such person (1) has taken an action to enforce a protection afforded any person under this chapter, (2) has testified or otherwise made a statement in or in connection with any proceeding under this chapter, (3) has assisted or otherwise participated in an investigation under this chapter, or (4) has exercised a right provided for in this chapter. The prohibition in this subsection shall apply with respect to a person regardless of whether that person has performed service in the uniformed services. (c) An employer shall be considered to have engaged in actions prohibited— (1) under subsection (a), if the person’s membership, application for membership, service, application for service, or obligation for service in the uniformed services is a motivating factor in the employer’s action, unless the employer can prove that the action would have been taken in the absence of such membership, application for membership, service, application for service, or obligation for service;
Title 38, United States Code, Chapter 43 – Employment and Reemployment Rights of Members of the Uniformed Services"

Here are some websites

Look at: http://www.dol.gov/vets/

also, the Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve (ESGR) is a DOD program to help employers administer USERRA, They are a fantastic resource and talk with them almost daily, (what a goofy existence <g> ) helping my fellow buds out.
Their website is : www.esgr.org
For a great quick read useful on this topic brought up here, Click the "About ESGR" Icon on the top left, the click on "USERRA FAQ" in the right hand column.

One of your future best sites is from the Reserve Officer Association (ROA) where Navy Capt Samuel F. Wright JAG (Lawyer) who was one of the authors of the USERRA Law in 1994 gives opinions on the gray areas etc.

http://www.roa.org/site/PageServer?p...yk9yog33.app7b
if the link is bad I'll try to get back and fix it, but go to
www.roa.org. Click on “Legislative Affairs” then “ROA Law Reviews.

USERRA came out in 1994, it left alot of questions and problems of interpretation, so the DOL came out with "The Final Rules" in December of 2005. It is found at:

http://www.dol.gov/vets/regs/fedreg/...2005023961.htm

It is like a very detailed FAQ and very useful.


The question of your future reserve service should not come up in the interview.
That is blatantly illegal. I don't have time right now to post all the stautes, but it is summed up in the discrimination clause 4311 posted above.
You are completely protected if your military service is honorable. Example, you will be protected for pay and benefits of your new hire classmates even if you are gone your first year. An employer can extend your "probation" for observation purposes, but USERRA protects you to receive second year pay etc upon your return. Same with pension and medical/health benefits

The Uniformed Services Employment and Remployment Rights Act (USERRA) is very informative. Sadly, many airline HR's and scheduling depts , CP's are ignorant or misunderstand what the statutes really say. My desire is to help my fellow mil bubs be informed so they can be a productive "shared employee" and be successful in both careers.

It would not make good PR for if any airline gave you a hard time and it got to the Media, Last time I checked we were Still At WAR...

We in the military and their families...the majority of the population has no clue. How has any of their lives changed given all that is going on? Where's their sacrifice? War bonds, rationing, etc.? Aside from TSA inconvenience, life hasn't changed or has at least reverted back to normal for most. Sad.:rolleyes:

yes were at war, but as a fellow reservist i must respectfully point out that the general public has no obligation to be "at war" too. if their life has gone back to normal, though i suspect that for most it has not, then so be it and we have done our job as a military to protect our people. they dont need to "sacrifice" anything to us because it just hasnt reached any sort of level that would require something like that like the really major wars of the last century.

so, with all due respect, its not sad. its a great thing that our citizens can live their lives normally.

Have to agree.... as someone who spent eight years on active duty ( 85- 93 )....i never felt like those "back home" needed to sacrifice........

I've had no problems at Comair dropping orders.

How does the airline react if you have to serve weekend duty during training? Ground, Sim or IOE? Has anyone dealt with this?

Maybe its different for non-fliers, but every Unit I know of allows you to be absent for airline training...then you can stash those Drill-make ups for months when you're short on cash.

I agree it is a good thing that our citizens can live a normal life. However, if and when the day comes, you'll see if this 'war' is truly supported or not by the masses. Sad in my post was more about the lessons of 9-11 that I believe have been long forgotten or never learned by too many.

I've dropped orders while on a trip. Comair has been great when it comes to military commitments. They understand our situation. I try to give them as much heads up as possible, but sometimes duty calls and your unit needs your butt to fly a mission ASAP. Comair has always answered by saying, "No problem,...just send us your orders when you get a chance...see you when you get back"

Legally, you can go to military duty at any time, but during training I (and everyone else) usually reschedules it unless it happens to fit into a good place in the training program.

It's hard for the airline to do "makeup" training...they are obligated by FAA rules to ensure you attend a certain number of training hours, and there's usually little to no padding in the schedule. If you skipped a week of ground training, you'd probably just have to wait for the next class.

I would not want to get interupted in the middle of sim, very bad idea. It would mess up your progress and leave your sim buddy hanging.

IOE is no big deal to reschedule, as long as you get it done within 120 days of the sim checkride it's legal. You also need 100 hours within 120 days (consolidation), so I wouldn't go on extended orders until after you get 100.

You have to put drill on the side. If you're in airline training, you need to be focused on that and not have to worry about anything else.

I'm with Slice. I think it is sad that the burden of a protracted war is borne by so few. If this war is worth fighting, then it is natural for widespread sacrifice to exist. We are supposed to be a nation at war, not a military at war. The military didn't decide to go to war, our nation did. Sacrifice doesn't necessarily have to be in the form of military service, but something...anything.

As for reservists and the law: do your best to work with your employer, but don't be surpised if they throw you a curveball. I went overseas on a 15-month deployment. When I got back, my job of seven years was no longer mine. It had been taken over by someone else. I was offered a job, but not in the career field I had pursued for over ten years. To put it in airline terms, how about leaving your company as a pilot in good standing and coming back to a job as a ramper or maybe flight attendant? According to my USERRA representative, who is a civilian lawyer and former General in the Guard, this is totally legal under the law, so long as your pay and seniority with the company are not diminished (might not be a perfect comparison, due to airline seniority issues, but you get the point).

Sorry for the long post. Through my personal experience, however, I've come to believe that while many employers may talk a good game about supporting the troops, even a relatively minor inconvenience to their operation often reveals exactly how little of the "burden" they are willing to shoulder. And that is sad.

I went back to my reserve unit twice during ground and sim training while i was at skywest, to get my takeoff and landings to stay current. i used my days off (one of the weekends in ground school) and the period between ground school and sims and jumpseated home without dropping orders. this was easy to do to because our class was huge and there was a week long backlog to get into the sim. It can be done, but I wouldnt firm anything up with your unit until the last minute.

Airlines for the most part take care of you when dropping military orders, and in my opinion the reason is you have a much less personal relationship with your chief pilot, than some office worker has with their boss. for this reason, you could keep taking off and it wont have the same effect, once again in my opinion. I met only one of my 3 chief pilots at SKW, and it was on the day that I turned in my manuals when I resigned. The downside however of not having that personal relationship is your CP might see all these military leave letters piling on his desk and will start paying special attention to you, but still theres really nothing he can do to you unless he catches you lying, jumpseating to hawaii while on mil leave, or breaking some other rule.

Slipaway,
This is long <g> The general is WRONG. You have a legitimate dispute with the VETS office at the Dept. of Labor (DOL)
USERRA says what happened to you is ILLEGAL according to U.S.C. 38 Section 4313. The seven year job was years. According to cases prosecuted, employer has to move the person who took your job. See below for actual statute language.

From the DOL http://www.dol.gov/vets/programs/userra/userra_fs.htm
"USERRA provides that returning service-members are reemployed in the job that they would have attained had they not been absent for military service (the long-standing "escalator" principle), with the same seniority, status and pay, as well as other rights and benefits determined by seniority. USERRA also requires that reasonable efforts (such as training or retraining) be made to enable returning service members to refresh or upgrade their skills to help them qualify for reemployment. The law clearly provides for alternative reemployment positions if the service member cannot qualify for the "escalator" position. USERRA also provides that while an individual is performing military service, he or she is deemed to be on a furlough or leave of absence and is entitled to the non-seniority rights accorded other individuals on non-military leaves of absence."

Read the USERRA Statutes here: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/military/statute.htm

but focus on the facts relative to your illegal job discrimination;
§ 4313. Reemployment positions

(a) Subject to subsection (b) (in the case of any employee) and sections 4314 and 4315 (in the case of an employee of the Federal Government), a person entitled to reemployment under section 4312, upon completion of a period of service in the uniformed services, shall be promptly reemployed in a position of employment in accordance with the following order of priority:

(1) Except as provided in paragraphs (3) and (4), in the case of a person whose period of service in the uniformed services was for less than 91 days--

(A) in the position of employment in which the person would have been employed if the continuous employment of such person with the employer had not been interrupted by such service, the duties of which the person is qualified to perform; or

(B) in the position of employment in which the person was employed on the date of the commencement of the service in the uniformed services, only if the person is not qualified to perform the duties of the position referred to in subparagraph (A) after reasonable efforts by the employer to qualify the person.

(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (3) and (4), in the case of a person whose period of service in the uniformed services was for more than 90 days--

(A) in the position of employment in which the person would have been employed if the continuous employment of such person with the employer had not been interrupted by such service, or a position of like seniority, status and pay, the duties of which the person is qualified to perform; or

(B) in the position of employment in which the person was employed on the date of the commencement of the service in the uniformed services, or a position of like seniority, status and pay, the duties of which the person is qualified to perform, only if the person is not qualified to perform the duties of a position referred to in subparagraph (A) after reasonable efforts by the employer to qualify the person.

(3) In the case of a person who has a disability incurred in, or aggravated during, such service, and who (after reasonable efforts by the employer to accommodate the disability) is not qualified due to such disability to be employed in the position of employment in which the person would have been employed if the continuous employment of such person with the employer had not been interrupted by such service--

(A) in any other position which is equivalent in seniority, status, and pay, the duties of which the person is qualified to perform or would become qualified to perform with reasonable efforts by the employer; or

(B) if not employed under subparagraph (A), in a position which is the nearest approximation to a position referred to in subparagraph (A) in terms of seniority, status, and pay consistent with circumstances of such person's case.

(4) In the case of a person who (A) is not qualified to be employed in (I) the position of employment in which the person would have been employed if the continuous employment of such person with the employer had not been interrupted by such service, or (ii) in the position of employment in which such person was employed on the date of the commencement of the service in the uniform services for any reason (other than disability incurred in, or aggravated during, service in the uniformed services), and (B) cannot become qualified with reasonable efforts by the employer, in any other position which is the nearest approximation to a position referred to first in clause (A)(I) and then in clause (A)(ii) which such person is qualified to perform, with full seniority.

(b)(1) If two or more persons are entitled to reemployment under section 4312 in the same position of employment and more than one of them has reported for such reemployment, the person who left the position first shall have the prior right to reemployment in that position.

(2) Any person entitled to reemployment under section 4312 who is not reemployed in a position of employment by reason of paragraph (1) shall be entitled to be reemployed as follows:

(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), in any other position of employment referred to in subsection (a)(1) or (a)(2), as the case may be (in the order of priority set out in the applicable subsection), that provides a similar status and pay to a position of employment referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection, consistent with the circumstances of such person's case, with full seniority.

(B) In the case of a person who has a disability incurred in, or aggravated during, a period of service in the uniformed services that requires reasonable efforts by the employer for the person to be able to perform the duties of the position of employment, in any other position referred to in subsection (a)(3) (in the order of priority set out in that subsection) that provides a similar status and pay to a position referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection, consistent with circumstances of such person's case, with full seniority.


Slipaway, if you need more info, search some of my previous posts and/or post here until you can PM me. Will show you how to file a complaint with the DOL, you will win this one easily unless you were disabled or became incapable of doing the job (burden of proof is on the employer though)
Not an atty, but work liaison with ESGR (Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve) a DOD function at my airline. Have often conferred with VETS at DOL and read many court cases.