Bad Recurrent PC
 

I've read these forums for a number of years, and have never really had a good reason to post until now. I just took a standard recurrent PC, nothing out of the ordinary was expected. The instructor I had went crazy and started asking me all kinds of in depth systems questions, many of which I hadn't even heard before. I was very respectful in telling him everything I did know but nothing I said was good enough.

Anyway, the guy busts me on the recurrent PC! I've never even come close to failing a flight test in my life, and I couldn't believe he busted me. I studied above and beyond the minimum just in case I got an instructor like that, but apparently it didn't matter. His mind was made up. My question is, will having something like this on my record prevent me from getting hired by a major airline? I sure hope that a situation like this doesn't ruin my career.

I wish I could help you with your answer but I don't work for a major so I'll leave that to them. Maybe you should even ask in the majors section. I would like ot know a little more background info on you. Who do you work for? How long have you been there?

I don't think that it should be an issue for you. When airlines hire pilots, they know that people make mistakes. Just make sure that you disclose it to any potential employer because it will become a big deal if you try to hide it.

Potential employers are trying to find out if you have a pattern of recurring training problems or law infractions. They just want to make sure that you are not a training liability, or someone who continually disobeys the law.

IMHO, don't sweat it. It shows that you are human. Don't, however, make it a habit.

Good luck

Sounds to me like you got a bad instructor, although I am only hearing one side of the story. I don't know what airline you work for, but where I work, a recurrent event is geared toward the line pilot. It is designed as both refresher training and a validation of specific skill sets, and doesn't go into near as much detail as an initial checkout. A guy would have to be pretty out to lunch, in my opinion, to flunk. It might not be pretty, but most often passable.

If you think the guy was unreasonable, I would take it to the training manager or flight standards. They most likely will back the instructor out of general principle, but if you can be courteous and professional, it should be well received. Just don't let it sound like whining. Maybe this instructor is already developing a bad rep and needs to be reported.

Busting a recurrent check is not like busting an FAA type ride. It's just a training event. I wouldn't even report it unless specifically asked. Just my opinion here...

Good luck.

I believe that failing a PC is reportable under PRIA, but the best person to ask is the person that's responsible for your company's training records. Give them a call, and see what they say.

I agree with the above poster that companies are looking for patterns of behavior - if you don't have any other failures on your record, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. You're biggest problem is going to be explaining what happened and presenting it in a positive light (i.e. What you learned from the experience, how you have ensured it will never happen again, etc.) If you are able to do that, it will be an unfortunate little blip on your career's radar screen.

It will only ruin it if you blame the instructor during an interview. As others have said, fall on your sword no matter what you think and tell what you learned from it.

I'm curious. Did he bust you in the brief? If he waited until after the sim, did you fail to meet the standard on any maneuvers? What reason did he give to bust you? Not meaning to pry, but I am an instructor and I'd like to learn something from this. Thanks.

I have had good luck with instructors... so I can not speak from experience, but you might want to talk to your flight mgr/union reps/flight standards people if you feel like you were treated unfair.

Everyone has a bad day---maybe he had a bad day and took it out on you (which is not fair)? But, if you were/are prepared, it shouldn't be a problem passing the re-check. Good luck, tough spot to be in man!

The only time I had any beef with an instructor was when he asked me how many gallons of blue juice the lav. holds at the end of my oral (with a straight face). I said, "if your just waiting for me to say 'I don't know' congratulations... I have no idea."

What kind of airplane do you fly, and what kind of questions was he asking you? That'll help us figure out if you did or didn't study the right material (sometimes folks don't their first time around) or if he was pulling the "I'm smarter than you about this airplane" trick some CKA are known to do.

Please, be honest - you'll get help here regardless of the cause.

He was asking me exactly what components come off each bus (some I knew but not all), and a lot a "why" questions. They isn't my first oral exam obviously and I expected that, but when I couldn't always come up with the why answers he would get mad. He was also asking me where to find a bunch of charts that I've never used before but he was convienced I should be using everyday on the line. He also wanted to know exactly where the loops for fire detection were on the engines, how many fans were located in various compartments for cooling.

It just doesn't seem like I should get busted on a PC for saying there were 3 recirc. fans instead of 4 in the avionics compartment. I studying my brains out for this oral and to get screwed on questions like this which he claimed were basic is ridiculous to me. No one is going to die because I don't know where the fire detection loops are. As the pilot, I know what should happen when I engage the fire detection and what to do if it doesn't. Isn't that enough?

That's no fun bud, not sure where the fire loops are, do know there are 4 fans in the forward electronics bay on the ERJ however...hmmm, i think.

To answer why systems are on different breakers, i'd say "redundancy" or "to aid in the system logic", cause odds are, it's for one of those reasons.

I wouldn't worry to much about busting a 121 check, you've gone through it before, you've passed it before, you'll go through it again, you'll pass it again, and when you get to said major, you'll pass plenty and plenty of checks over the span of your career. And probably bust a few also. Good luck, stay on the positive, and study up again, then show that examiner that you're a walkin encyclopedia of the freaking RJ. :D

JetBlast - are you with Trans States? It sure sounds like it...

beat me to it Experimental... I was just about to ask JetBlast if he's a waterskier... My oral is on monday... any advice from former/current waterskiers?

Failing checkrides:

The old saying is "there are those that have, and those that will".

None of us are excluded from that sentence. Take responsibility for it, don't pass the blame, and I don't see the problem.

First thing is to get by the requal. Once you have done that, ask for a meeting with the Senior and discuss your oral and what happened. Ask about the standards of an oral and if the questions asked conform with the syllabus. Mention that you are not looking to bust anyone's chops but that you want to learn from the experience and be better prepared the next time. Tactifully done, you will nail the guy's wad to the wall if the Senior is anything other than a wus just occupying a seat in an windowless office.

Ya so what company is it? I've heard life is "great" over there at trans states nowadays...

It shouldn't be an issue. If you ever have to explain it at an interview, say that you were asked some in depth system questions that you wern't expecting. You studied, but not to that extent that you could answer his questions. In every PC since then, you studied harder and were able to answer the more in depth questions without problem.

The interviewer will see that you are human, and learn from your mistakes, and go to the next question.

Eagle sends very in-depth PRIA training records. The ones I saw listed sim#, day, instructor, results of each session (including the IOE instructor getting sick on an overnight) and hours for each session during my three years there. I wouldn't worry about it, some training departments have reputations.

I thought there were 2 fans in the forward navy? lol... i think... I just passed my oral at trans states today... didn't get asked about the forward fans or the fireloops...

How about four? two recirc and two exhaust. Two run anytime the avionics are on and two are temperature activated.

i guess i fail haha

Next time you have a guy who's that much of a prick, ask him to describe the female genetalia....

Doubtful he can, since the last time he saw any was on his way out of his mother's womb.

Where are the fire loops? Where they need to be.
How many fans are there? Enough to get the job done.
I'm a pilot, not an engineer or a mechanic.