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-   -   Aborting T/O after v1...question? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/22280-aborting-t-o-after-v1-question.html)

Slice 02-13-2008 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by E1Out (Post 319808)
From The Turbine Pilot's Flight Manual:

"V1: Takeoff Decision Speed

Let's start with V1, takeoff decision speed. Simply put, it is the "go or no-go" speed. If an abnormality occurs before V1 is reached, takeoff is to be immediately aborted. If an engine failure or other abnormality occurs after V1 is attained, takeoff is continued and any problem is treated in flight. Most airline and corporate flight departments have historically used V1 speeds based upon "balanced field length" for their particular aircraft. If an engine failure occurs exactly at V1, the distance required to abort the takeoff and stop is the same as the distance required to continue the takeoff. In familiar multiengine terms, this means that accelerate-go distance equals accelerate-stop distance."

In your example, you got the engine fire indication right at V1. Therefore, it would not only be legal, but also prudent to abort the takeoff.

Furthermore, in my first Captain PC, the examiner started a discussion by asking whether or not there were any circumstances in which I would consider aborting a takeoff after V1. After quite a bit of discussion, it was decided that under specific conditions, you might in fact use your best judgment and decide to abort the takeoff. It's the reason that airplanes aren't flown solely by computers, and that is what Captain's Emergency Authority is for.

In a Saab 340, with at least 10,000ft of runway left, with a possible engine fire, and no other extenuating circumstances - I'd venture to say that I absolutely would abort the takeoff. If it were a B747, with only 7,000ft of runway left - that would be a different story.

If you get the indication at V1, you are past it by the time you react. If you hear "vee" from the non-flying pilot, you go with a few exceptions.

flyguyniner11 02-13-2008 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by E1Out (Post 319808)

In a Saab 340, with at least 10,000ft of runway left, with a possible engine fire, and no other extenuating circumstances - I'd venture to say that I absolutely would abort the takeoff. If it were a B747, with only 7,000ft of runway left - that would be a different story.

the problem with that is you know the plane will fly, its one of the things that is practices ad-nausum in the sim, you might have some explaining to do after that one

Past V1 02-13-2008 01:33 PM

Hence my log in name ----- Past V1 ----- I am beyond the point of return!!!

E1Out 02-13-2008 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by Slice (Post 319814)
If you get the indication at V1, you are past it by the time you react. If you hear "vee" from the non-flying pilot, you go with a few exceptions.

I can't find the reference again, but the FAA says that the "Vee-One" call should be made so that when the words "Vee-One" are completed, you should be exactly at V1.

ERJ135 02-13-2008 02:07 PM

IMO the only reason to abort after V1 is a stuck elevator. We practiced that in the sim. I'd rather take a nose dive off the pier in LGA then try to bring back the plane using trim.

Swedish Blender 02-13-2008 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by blastoff (Post 319793)
Just in response to the engine fire thing...Engine fire = Engine burning Jet A and producing thrust. If you can't put it out, so what? Worse case the engine burns to the fuse bolts and it falls off...oh well, good thing I only need one anyways. Nothing about a Fire light ever means you can't make it to pattern altitude and fly a normal downwind to a visual or ILS...Abort after V1 and now you have a fire AND a high-speed abort...bad juju.

He was talking about a Saab. In most jets, sure the pod is made to separate. If the engine burns off a Saab, the wing will also.

Moose Surgeon 02-13-2008 02:45 PM

Seems that everyone has their own views and points but I believe that it is a situational event. On my type ride I made an abort 20 kts above V1 due to a control failure. As I said this was on a type ride. This issue also arose with the 737 that had a piece of asphalt lodge in the elevator during t/o. They tried to take off after the F/O informed the captain that the controls were jammed. V1 means go in just about every scenario but there are exceptions.

subicpilot 02-13-2008 03:01 PM


Originally Posted by ERJ135 (Post 319855)
IMO the only reason to abort after V1 is a stuck elevator. We practiced that in the sim. I'd rather take a nose dive off the pier in LGA then try to bring back the plane using trim.

Lots of other reasons...dual engine fire, loss of thrust, bird strikes, windshear, spilled coffee in your lap, cell phone rings...don't limit yourself. :D

blastoff 02-13-2008 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by Swedish Blender (Post 319873)
He was talking about a Saab. In most jets, sure the pod is made to separate. If the engine burns off a Saab, the wing will also.

So noted...So in a Saab you can't pull closed before the wing burns off?

JerrySpringer 02-13-2008 04:14 PM

Here's an example of an abort after V1. I realize it's not an RJ or T-prop, but illustrative of the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS8slRy3EMA


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