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FAA Probe Raises Pilot Fatigue Issue

Old 02-28-2008, 05:05 AM
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Default FAA Probe Raises Pilot Fatigue Issue

http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4441/40/

From Mesahub.com

aztecflyer: So I heard Jonathan Ornstein personally threatened to sue Stacy Loe and the entire television station if they aired the follow up to the sleeping go! pilots story. JO said they couldn't prove anything and he would sue. KGMB was going to drop the story until a Mesa Captain quit yesterday (after being dead headed cear across the USA twice in two days and getting minimum rest) and he sent KGMB his schedule from his last day. I just saw it on KGMB at 10PM. its fricking awesome.
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:00 AM
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when did this story air?
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ksrasg View Post
when did this story air?
Last night (Feb 27).
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:30 AM
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http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4441/40/

They say it happens more than you realize. Pilots tell us they're so exhausted they fall asleep at the controls. Now, there's more proof and more controversy.

While federal investigators haven't determined if that was the case, people in the airline industry nationwide are talking about it and telling us about it.
KGMB9's Stacy Loe first broke the story and continues her investigation.

Since our story aired, I've received more than 50 e-mails from pilots across the country.
Many claim to be current or former Mesa airlines employees who say this is a problem that needs to be addressed. Some of their claims are chilling. They agreed to go on the record, if we did not use their names.

When you fly do you know how rested your pilots are?
"On almost every e-mail we received it was the same story. Pilots saying fatigue is a real factor and sleeping in the cockpit happens more often than passengers realize.I have personally flown flights with captains that have fallen asleep," writes one pilot for Mesa.. which owns go! Airlines.

Another former Mesa pilot we spoke to admits he's done it, but say's he's not proud of it.
"I've fallen asleep, there have been times I've told the other crew members I am out you have the airplane."

According to FAA regulations, pilots can fly for 8 hours but can be on duty up to 16 hours a day.
One former Mesa pilot says long days were standard practice at the airlines, where he flew for 6 years.
"There would be many, many times that we would be on duty for 16 hours and completely wiped out. And then depending if it was on a 3 or 4 day trip, you know that could be day 1 or day 2 and you still had 2 more days to go."

Another former Mesa pilot tells KGMB9 he recently resigned during a trip that included flying and commute time that would have approached 22 hours. A copy of his schedule confirms that.
"And after that they wanted me to have minimum rest of 9 hours and go back to work and I didn't find it plausible it was absolutely incredible."

The rules allow a minimum of 8 hours of rest time. It starts shortly after pilots land the plane. But it doesn't mean a crew member is getting 8 hours of sleep.

"From that point, you still need to get off the plane, get your stuff, walk out, wait for a shuttle bus that could be another 10-15 minutes and then it could be another 20 minutes to get to your hotel, get to your room."ll airlines have a policy designed to protect pilots. Those who are too tired to fly can call in fatigued without fear of retribution. But a former Mesa pilot says it's not that easy.

"You can't just call in fatigued because you are tired. If a schedule is technically legal FAA minimum legal then it's not enough, not enough of a reason."

Mesa's CEO Jonathan Ornstein, "We don't write the rules, we abide by them. We've done it for 25 years and will continue to do so for the next 25 years."

But does legal mean safe? The FAA says yes.
"We believe current work rule hours are sufficient and effective. It's really up to the pilots and the airline to make sure they are properly rested," said Ian Gregor, FAA Pacific Regional Spokesman.

The FAA considered changing the rules back in 1995 but couldn't reach a consensus with the aviation community.

Pilot fatigue is on the National Transportation Safety Boards most wanted list when it comes to safety improvements.

The agency has asked the FAA to modify its rules to take into consideration research findings in fatigue and sleep issues . On its website, the NTSB says the FAA's response on this issue has been unacceptable.

"We take everything the NTSB says very seriously and in many cases we do implement the recommendations," said Gregor. Not soon enough for pilots who say until the flight rules are changed, fatigue will remain a factor in the skies.

The FAA says if in fact pilots are falling asleep in cockpits or if their company has forced them to fly when they've been too tired, they want to know about it. Only then can the agency do something about it.
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:49 AM
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I was pleased with the report.
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:50 AM
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I'm VERY surprised that a spokesman for the FAA would say that it is up to the individual companies and pilots to ensure that they are properly rested. I thought the job of the FAA was to regulate the industry and ensure that the safety of the flying public was protected.

The current duty limits are completely unrealistic and unsafe.

Someday this is really going to hit the fan, and the bureaucrats in the FAA and management toads are all going to shrug their shoulders and claim they had no idea that pushing pilots almost twice as long as truck drivers each day could possibly lead to fatigue and unsafe conditions.

Very sad that the FAA won't step up to the plate and fix this.

FJ
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Old 02-28-2008, 07:23 AM
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Good, the more bad press mesa gets the better, JO comes out looking like an arogant SOB in that report.
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Old 02-28-2008, 07:31 AM
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The rules need to be re-written. ALPA has made some noise to that effect, but it doesn't seem to be too high up on their list. I'm sure if they made an all-out assault on duty regs, they could get congress to do it (like age 65).

I'd like to see some reality applied in these areas...

- Circadian rythm. No flip-flops without a LONG break, 24 hours+.

- Cruise Flight time is not any harder than duty time spen sitting in a terminal, crew room, or coach seat. Get rid of flight time limits and go with a duty time limit.

- Prepping the aircraft, taxi, T/O, and Landing are where the work is...reduce the max duty day by one hour for each additional leg.

- Turboprops on the same program as everybody else.


Something like this:

Max duty: 13 hours/ 2 legs SCHEDULED. This would barley allow transcon turns (you could exceed 13 hours for unplanned delays of course). If you don't want transcon turns, make it 12 hours.

A four leg day would be limited to 11 hours, a 6 leg day to 9 hours. It would be effectively impossible to do anything more than 5-6 legs.

Just some ideas.
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:24 AM
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ALPA needs to put more pressure on the FAA with this issue. I'm sick of begin SCHEDULED reduced rest. Maybe this GO event will cause the FAA to act.
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:52 AM
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These all sound like great ideas, but don't shorter duty days lead to fewer days off? Is that an acceptable trade to all of you?
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