Fastest way to the regionals???
 

Hello to all,

I am sure this has been discussed before, but...

What is the fastest way to the regionals for a guy working on his PPL?

I went through the Mesa program many years ago (as did my brother), and it was a great deal at the time... things have changed though, and with hiring happening at some regionals with less than 400TT, going through a 2 year program, specially if one already has a 4-year degree, is a waste of money/time.

I know Mesa has the PACE program which could pay off nicely.

Any other alternatives that you guys know of?

Any good Part 141 schools in Arizona or New Mexico someone has experience with?

My main goal is helping out a friend who would like to get on with a Part 121 carrier, no matter which one.... and he would like to do it without having to instruct (no offense to all those great instructors out there)... meaning we would like to know the fastest way from PPL to a Part 121.

Any help is truly appreciated.

The fastest way is probably a medium-sized flight school which has the staff, equipement, and flexibility to load up your schedule and get it done. You are basically looking at two flights (or sims) per day, 5-6 days/week.

A small school may not have the resources to consistently support that pace, and the large academies always schedule according to their best interests at the moment...a student who has already signed up is just a cog in their machine.

With a comm AMEL, you could then get a job at mesa. That's probably the fastest way.

But life at a bottom feeder like mesa is a whole 'nother topic of conversation...if your friend thinks one regional is just like another, he is mistaken.

uh oh, here we go again.

CloudSailor:

My advice is that it all depends on what your situation is. Their may be some obstacles that you may have to overcome that most do not or you may be older than most like myself. Whatever you do...do your research. It has taken me two years to research all avenues that are available and what's going to be the best route for me and my family.

You may want to go to the "Pilot Lounge" part of this forum and click on "Flight Schools". I started a thread on the pros & cons of PFT. I got varied responses. Some say yea...most say nay! In addition, there are other threads that discusses this particular topic in detail.

In the end, the decision is yours and yours alone.

All the best. Blue skies.



atp

now that we are at it.. can we get the fastest way to a Computer Science PhD? their first year salary is better than 1st year in regionals...

Yeah but do they have a union?

How come nobody ever asks the best way? Only the fastest...:rolleyes:

go to gulfstream academy and become an AIRLINE PILOT!!! ;) in no time!...... oops forgot to say u gotta pay them 30 grand :D

How can you be concerned with the fastest way of becomeing an airline pilot when you/they are working on their ppl? Your feet are barely wet and now you want to fly 50 or so people around. I think that this is a crazy way to think.

What ever happened to the days where you would have to instruct for a couple of years and save up enough money to buy 50 hours of multi time so that you could land a job flying checks from Jacksonville to Brimingham single pilot IFR and scare yourself enough times with no one on board so that another one or two years later you were confident and skilled enough to fly 19 passengers around in a 1900 for four years while you waited for your first part 121 upgrade to captain?

That's what we thought about doing in college ten years ago... or join the military and fly.

What would you think if you knew your doctor had found the quickest and easiest way through med school?

Not crazy. Efficient. If he can handle it, all the power to him. If not, well we can only hope that even Mesa can weed through applicants. I for one am tired of this argument! Am I crazy too, to think that I can go from a 50-seat RJ to flying a 777 around for Emirates?? :confused:

He'll know for sure when he gets some more experience. I'll tell you what is crazy - those that want to waste away their time doing something mediocre just because...

Are you resisting change? It's the only constant in this crazy world. I don't like it either, but you have to live with it.

I'd probably be hoping that he was one of the sharper tools that got through.

Aaaaaaaah.... the good old days! This is making me feel a little old now!

Attitudes and the industry have changed.


atp

For the worse if you ask most people in the industry...:rolleyes:

You're right. There is no one magic pill if you will that will cure all the "ills" of this industry. There's management, oil prices, consumer confidence, unions, mediation boards, differentiation in pay for the equipment pilots fly, and the list goes on and on....

It's the same in the healthcare industry. Is it doctors, insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies? Who btw pander all of these miracle drugs... yet the side affects alone could kill you. :eek:


atp

Fastest isn't the best. If it were there wouldn't be so many making lateral moves from one regional to another. I'm sure there are several that have done it that would vote against it. There are many quality experiences out there that will teach you valuable lessons you'll never learn flying 121. I don't care how many hours someone has there are still things they'll learn from instructing. Also if you want to be a shear badass just fly 135 freight single pilot :D

That he'd be easier to persuade to give me the "good meds" without asking too many questions or getting himself hurt in the process :D

To answer the original post, it really depends...there are at least 5 regional airlines hiring with wet ink on the multi. That being said, the quickest way to get it done, as stated above, is to go to a well staffed/maitained FBO. Something else to take into consideration is weather year round. I recomend finding somewhere down south where you get the most flying days out of the year...


To everyone else bashing the guy for not wanting to instruct, let me be the first to welcome you to the new era of aviation...you can either accept it or change careers, but I can honestly tell you that complaining won't change a thing...once again welcome to the new regional airline industry.

Do they need one? Apples to bowling balls comparison.

Don't like your current computer gig? Well, quit and go to work at some other computer job. Usually for more money, better location, better bennies. Very little, if any sacrifice for making a lateral move. What a freaking concept.

I almost feel bad for these fast-trackers, though not as bad as the thought of my family getting on some of these planes. The best flying gigs I had minus the current one were non-airline. You guys have no idea what you're missing. There's a lot more to flying than taking an RJ to the same dozen or so cities. Glad I don't have to deal with the 'new breed' anymore.:rolleyes:

Not flaming you, but I'm sure that the CA's you flew with thought the same thing. And the CA's they had to fly with thought the same about them, and so on, and so on.

You mean like having to go through training all over again and losing seniority in an already gambling industry where seniority and upgrades are everything? You're right. Outside of giving up the most valuable parts of your job there's very little sacrifice.

I had ATP mins(rating, not the school) when I flew my first 121 leg. Just slightly more than the 300 hour dudes out there now. So, no not really.

Funny, when I got my first gig, most CA's I flew with had 2-3000 tt, and usually some 135 experience. THEN they were lucky enough to get hired at a 121 carrier, all for $14/hr to fly a 19 seat turboprop.

And I used to hear that "it's not like back in the day when when I got hired, you had to have 10,000 single pilot IFR blah blah blah. Not like now where they hire you 1500 hour kids with nothing by CFI experience" bs.

No way dawg...I don't think so!!!!:eek:


atp

You know, I read most threads posted here and there are so many hypocritical comments. We talk about how pilots have to stick together with the brotherhood(and sisterhood) and the ongoing war between pilots and managements, blah, blah, blah. But now, when there are guys who don't have to instruct for 5 years(God forbid) to get into the flight deck trying to start a career for themselves, the whole unified bs blew away with the wind. The point that instructing experience is a common belief to folks is well taken however don't "hate" on the guy(or gal) who didn't have to go through the "CFI experience". The truth of the matter is that if this opportunity was given to the one who had to instruct, chances are they would have jumped all over it. If you feel unsafe, there are more options but keep in mind, the guy with tens of thousands of hours is very much capable of screwing up. My point? Instead of knocking down the newbie in the sky, try to stick to that "we have to stick together" thing that is attempted against management.


**Disclaimer**: This was by no means a flame or an attempt to offend anybody. Just statements of the truth.

Somebody here will be offended, no matter how you cut the cake :rolleyes:

A newbie in the sky needs to make sure he gets all the information he can prior to making a big decision. There are many here who've made laterals and a chunk of them who feel they should have never gone to the place they went to before it. People here have worked at Mesa and Trans-States and haven't been very happy there. Why put yourself though that? I've never had a flying job that wasn't great. I loved being a CFI. I made good money, built good honest flight time, and learned a thing or two about teaching. I'm not saying anyone is any less for doing otherwise, but some are advocates of going one direction and I'll be an advocate of going the direction I did. I've been very happy with the route I took. Never any regrets. If I didn't push this direction of thought then a disservice would be done. Most people have a set long term goal and I doubt anywhere in there is to get hired at the worst regional with worst work rules possible, build flight time slowly, making peanuts, then make a lateral move to go down to the bottom of seniority at another regional. Some are simply put in this unfortunate position but there are others who chose it.

There's nothing wrong with everyone arguing on both sides of the fence. You sound like we're doing it to be mean and aren't being unified. We're doing it to make sure the poster fully understands which decision he's about to make. We do it so he can make the decision that will be in his best interest. This isn't us being mean or not unified. We're doing it because we've all been in his position before, have shared his enthusiasm, and want what's best for him. Since we don't know what it is exactly he really wants we can only inform him to our best.

My opinion is flight instruction is one of the most valuable flight experiences you'll have. You'll learn a great deal as well as have a great sense of accomplishment when you see a student grow because of the skills you taught them. You'll also be opened up to many new experiences. If you fly out of an FBO and not a school you'll fly more aircraft and do things you never thought about.... I've flown a T-6, steermans and other biplanes, chased down illegals crossing the border in huskies landing in riverbeds, flown to other countries, several experimentals, etc. all as a cfi which was a big deal then. I don't care what I fly now I still miss the steerman. I think I'll hit that corp duster up this week! If I had just gone "the office" style environment of 121 I never would have had the good times I had then. Now I just hope I can make enough to go do those things again one day!

WellIbedamn. Somebody finally said it. ;)

Like I said before; attitudes and the industry as a whole is changing........and we must adapt to these changes otherwise we get left behind or we're left with an archaic view of things.


atp

Toilet Duck.
Please don't get me wrong. Your opinion as well as everyone else here is valuable and this site is an excellent source for information. Definitely, one should do their research so that the lateral transfer can be avoided. And I'm sure that instructing is an excellent way to gain experience as it is probably the most popular way. I don't and advise others not to take anything personally that's posted for everyone has their strong opinion. Just highlighting the difference between a strong opinion and insults.

Wow, 2 inexperienced guys agreeing with each other? Has hell frozen over? :rolleyes: Change is good when it is positive. Lowering the experience levels of cockpit crews is never a good thing. It drives down safety and lowers pay.

...................deleted...............

Just don't cut the cheese!

Bond, Rickair7777, I appreciate your responses and insight. Close to the information I have been obtaining.
Good luck.

Well, never did I say change was always a good thing. My point was don't hate on the guy getting there in a shorter time than it took you. Because one has more hours or "experience" than the other doesn't always make them the better candidate. Shocker ain't it?:eek:

"Because one has more hours or "experience" than the other doesn't always make them the better candidate."

Actually...it does.

As a baseline, that's how our system works. No absolutes, but that's how the system has worked for years. More experience equals better pilot.

I'm still not seeing the problem with that....

I'll try not to take sides in this discussion, but I'll say maybe it's a good thing this person doesn't want to instruct. The simple fac is that not everybody should instruct. An instructor is a teacher. And like all the teachers we all had at various levels of education, some were good and some were bad. The best teachers I had were the ones who really loved their jobs. They weren't just doing it because they were just out of college and needed a job fast.

I think the same principle holds true in aviation. The majority of CFI's use the gig as a stepping stone. Fine. But what if you really hate the job, or you're just not a good teacher? He may learn a thing or two from it, but it may not be beneficial for the student. The student may learn a lot of bad habits, or may just have a problem learning because CFI John Brown doesn't know how to impart knowledge.

Bottom line, don't say that everybody should instruct. It's not for everybody. Everybody should gain experience in low and slow airplanes where mistakes are easy to correct.

Go to an FBO and pay as you go while you work on the side. Then take a jet course to bridge the huge gap between spinning around in a 172 vs flying a tin can with rockets on the side. There are currently regionals that will hire you fresh out of flight school - Piedmont (no mins), ASA, Eagle, Mesa, and blow jets. I do not necessarily agree with this route but it is the fastest. You could also go to a flight school if you have been watering the the money tree in your back yard. Most people on here will say skip the Jet course. I guess it depends on your learning curve. I would do everything as mentioned plus the CFI route. Being a CFI was the best days of my life. Also, I made more money than I did as a first year FO. Just keep in mind that if you ask 1000 pilots what they would do, you will get 1000 different answers. This business is what you make of it.

I agree with your statement but would like to add an interesting point. You also have to consider what the applicant did to achieve those hours in the logbook. Would you prefer a banner pilot with 3000 hours (no disrespect to you fellas) or a military guy/gal with over 1500 hours in a F-18? It's not always about the hours. Quality (in my opinion) is more important than quantity.