Unhireable
 

I've been instructing for two years and have 1100TT over 100 multi. I was holding out to meet the mins for my top pick regional. They decided not to hired me, nor did my second pick. Both appealed to me because they are the only two with a base close to my home. Should I hold out and reapply in 6 months? Or look at others? Also, words of encouragement are greatly appreciated. I'm really bummed. :( I'm studying for the ATPw, seeking an interview coach, and contemplating an RJ course. I wish they gave feedback so I knew what to do to improve, but those are the only things I can come up with.

Sounds like you have a good grasp on things...

Make sure and throw your resume out there for some interview practice! Interview at places that you wouldn't want to work, just to see what the environment is like. By the time you go through 3 of those interviews, get your ATPw and interview coach stuff out of the way, and do just a little more flight instructing, it will have already been almost 6 months.

Do not do an RJ course.

And if you find another regional that you think you would be happy at, maybe it would be better to get on with them. Dunno, tough call.

Good luck!

Unfortunately, when airlines don't hire you, they usually don't tell you exactly why. With your time, I wouldn't waste money on an RJ course...airline training is just that, and THEY PAY YOU for that. What you might want to do is apply for and interview at airlines you have no desire to actually work for, and use that as practice. Then reapply to the airlines you really want to work for, or others that are still good companies. That way you will know what you need to do to pass the interview, roundabout.

The big thing is to be yourself and don't put on an act, and attempt to relax!

Good luck!

Been turned down before, and went 3 years before getting hired after I left the military, so I know what a blow something like this is, especially to your ego. It's deflating to wonder why you weren't hired when you seem to have everything your prospective employer is asking for.

Don't doubt yourself. Not being hired is NOT a reflection of your abilities.

You could have been turned down for wearing the wrong color tie. Or you reminded the interviewer of someone they hated. Or they didn't like your accent. Whatever...this industry is so fickle...

Just keep working toward what you love doing. Accrue meaningful flight time, keep networking too. Meeting the right person is better than all the flight time you could ever have. I can't stress this enough.

The interview coach is a great idea. I had some bad habits regarding nervous fidgeting and posture that were corrected by an interview coach.

Also, make sure before you interview that you get the "gouge". That means knowing all the questions they are going to ask, what aircraft they use for the sim eval, what the sim profile is, facts and figures about the company etc...EVERYTHING. Then go rent time in an equivalent sim with an instructor and fly that profile a few times. You don't want any surprises during the interview.

That's all I can think of, for the moment. Hang in there.

The only reason I was thinking about the RJ course was becuase my top pick regional asked during the interview if I had any "formal training". I assumed they meant an RJ course. I can't help but wonder if I could've said yes, if things would've turned out differently.

I've been reluctant to apply to regionals I'm not interested in for practice interviews b/c I don't want to be black-listed should a time come when they may be my only option. But I that's the pessimistic side of me.

THANK YOU! I needed to hear that. For a split second I thought, "Maybe I'm not cut out for this." Which really scared me.

I definitely studied the gouges and was well prepared. I thought. I'll definitely have to hit up an interview coach to find out what my nervous twitch is.

RPCV,

As was posted earlier by Subicpilot, networking is really important. Maybe you can consider a job fair. AirInc has 6 job fairs a year throughout the country I believe, although they are a bit expensive. There's other not-so-expensive job fairs out there though, such as one by AviationInterviews.com. Try going to one at which your top choices will be attending. You can also attend a Women in Aviation fair (even if you are not a woman, seriously).

I attended an AirInc show a few years ago and got one good interview out of the deal, and made some nice contacts... was also able to help out some other pilots trying to get hired by the airline I was flying for... I was unable to 'secure' an interview at my top picks for that particular fair, but it was well worth my time, money and effort.

Also, consider an interview prep course. I've only done one so far, and it paid off nicely. I did it for what I considered my most important interview, as I had not done it for a few interviews prior. I'm really glad I did it, even though it was over the phone. The company I went through was Emerald Coast Interviews, the owner is a pilot who you might find on the cargo forum of APC under the screen name AlbieF15. In any event, I've heard of many different interview prep courses and any one will definitely help.

Other than that, hang in there. Again, as Subic said, it's not a reflection of who you are, don't beat yourself up over this. It'll happen soon enough.

Not to be mean, but I would stop being a pre--madonna and get hired at the first airline that calls you at this point (no Gojets). Beggers can't be choosers.

On another not, you not getting hired really may have very little to do with you, maybe you just didn't fit there profile of what they were looking for that day? I know great great pilot/people that were passed up by a certain airline meanwhile some people whom have no place in an airplane got the job........

Pass the ATPw and when the time comes, get the ATP (even in a single if you can't afford a multi). That way the written won't expire and you have an ATP. You should be willing to move for the job especially if you are not married or in some way tied down. You just might like living somewhere else. It's a big world out there.

Sounds likely probably bad luck or bad interview skills. You have a plan for addressing the interview skills, but you might also want to consider background issues. You didn't mention any, so I assume there are no criminal records or arrests in your past. However, is it possible that someone you listed as a reference or a previous employer said something negative?

- Make SURE that your references will give a glowing, enthusiastic report. A somewhat reluctant reference who you cornered into doing it will not help much. Select your refs carefully.

- Previous employers. If you think you might get a less-than-stellar report from an employer, perhaps you can mend the fences with them over coffee or beer. Another option is to list a person at the company who would be more positive about you as opposed to your actual boss.

- Are your reference letters written well, with correct grammar and spelling? An airline will not be impressed by a letter written by a 20-something slacker CFI who has no writing skills and doesn't know where the spell-check feature is found in MS Word.

- Are your references appropriate? Your CFI buddies and frat brothers probably don't cut it. You generally want at least one "character" reference from someone held in high esteem by society...professor, military CO, DPE, airline CA etc. You also want two letters from pilots who you have flown with...these should ideally have been your supervisors, not your buddies, unless they have impressive qualifications.

Just some thoughts to cover all bases.

I don't mean to be a pre-madonna, but my strong attraction to these two regional purely have to do with the convenience of being able to live at home. I'm a Returned Peace Corps Volunteer, thus my screename, so I'm used to moving around, however living at home affords me the benifit of not having any bills to pay. Ideally, I'd like to stay that way. Also, although I'm not married, I'm in a committed relationship of 8 years. So that ties me down too. That being said, I'm open to commuting for another regional, I just don't know who.

I do have 3 speeding tickets one of which was in excess of 20 MPH, all received several years ago when I was in college.

Lastly, I've chosen my references carefully. I don't believe that any of them have been contacted, b/c I'm pretty sure they would tell me. I WILL be taking letters of recommendation to my next interview. I believe that would've been helpful.

The expiration date shouldn't matter as long as he gets hired at a 121 carrier relatively soon.

I think you mean prima donna. Pre-madonna was the 60's....

Sorry couldn't resist.

RPCV,

If you don't mind me asking...where are you trying to get hired?

I knew something didn't seem right.

RAH and AWAC.

I bet I can guess at least one place if he says he has 1000/100 and was "holding out".

Ooh, I was right! RAH was one of my guesses!

I've never interviewed for a pilot position however, interviewing is interviewing. A couple of things:

• Treat it (the interview) as if you were having a conversation w/ur parents. They are an authoritative figure and in some aspects so is the hiring board. Remember it's a casual conversation.

• Regular eye contact with everyone. Look down occasionally.

• Relax. Your body language speaks volumes.

• Be confident and determined. "See" yourself saying, "Yes, I accept your offer of employment."

Hope this helps.

Blue skies.



atp

I would look into your interview prep, just like some of the others have said. I just interviewed and was hired at RAH. The interview was just as described in the gouges. If you weren't prepared for what you encountered at the interview, it would be a little overwhelming to just go in there cold.

I also know what you are going through mentally. I did not get hired at my first choice, and experienced all of the self doubt and anger that you have been going through. Stay current, keep the good attitude up, and apply what you've learned to the next set of interviews.

haha yeah, thats bad sorry, and to the fellow above, I went to Colgan knowing I could have been based in Charleston West VA, or Jamestown, NY, or Altoona, PA, or even Houston, TX :(etc it blows, but part of this job

"Formal Training"? That is one of those "so when did you quit beating your wife?" questions. Sure you have had formal training: the individual(s) who taught you to fly were all federally certified. Not to mention, when you rented the tux for the prom, the tailor told you how to wear the cummerbund (Formal Training).


And I applaud you for not taking an interview for a job you have no intention of accepting. People who do, waste the company's time and money and scr*w fellow job seekers out of an interview slot.

What if the first one (or only one) to call is Colgan?
or Mesa?

hhmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Just keep sight of your goal and be honest with yourself on your strengths and weaknesses. I know it may sound stupid but you have to capitalize on your assets and sell yourself. Unfortunately in most interviews you do not get much time to do this and without some experience/planning you can miss the window to show them why they should hire you instead of the other 10 qualified applicants. I did not get hired at the first place I interviewed at and looking back I don't blame them. I was a way too nervous and never got comfortable enough to make a good impression with the HR staff. But all worked out for the best in the long run and I ended up with a better job IMO.

So keep after it and use the experience to make you better next time.

RPCV,

Get the interview experience by applying with other Airlines. Remember that you are interviewing other companies while they are interviewing you. You may find out that companies other than your #1 or #2 choice may be a better fit for you. Grass is growing under your feet.

Try Mesaba. They NEED pilots, and they look like a good company..

Best of luck to you my friend.

Jose.

I'll try to make this short and sweet!

1. You aren't unhireable, but sometimes we have to eat some ******* to get where we want to be...........this career is just one stepping stone after another..........always has been and always will be.............today you are at the bottom, where we have all been.............5 years from now, you will be looking for a major if you play your cards right. Again, as previously posted.........forget the jet time and go where the upgrade is quickest to 1,000 hrs PIC turbine.........colgan maybe.

2. I know you are bummed and dissappointed. However, always be confident.........not arrogant........confident in these interviews..........no joke, I would spend money on self esteem boosting material before an RJ ripoff course...........nothing bad ever came from growing mentally.......ie: Tony Robbins, Brian Tracy, or my favorite........Andy Andrews "7 Decisions DVD". You can always dumb yourself down in a conversation with someone, but it's hard to fake self esteem and confidence.............just my 2 cents.

3. I recently witnessed a HORRIBLE,HORRIBLE interview/sim ride from the right seat as the non-flying pilot. Buddy, this guy had no business getting hired and didn't...........So, my third piece of advice is get serious about your next interview and make sure you can fly the sim to a reasonable standard..........very reasonable............not 60 degree bank turns in the wrong direction and 800 ft altitude deviations...........this poor kid wasted his time, my time and the airlines time.

This is sincere and I hope it helps..............best of luck!!

All the advice so far looks good, however I'd be at least a little cautious about interviewing with several places I had no intent to work for. When you do get the interview you want and they ask, "Where else have you applied?" it won't sound good saying you've had several interviews and turned them all down. Practice is good, but I'd only interview if I had relatively serious intentions of accepting if offered.

Overall - keep your head up and don't get discouraged! Good luck!!!

Apply and interview everywhere you can, interviewing is a learned skill just like flying airplanes. If you feel that interviewing with regionals you may turn down is burning bridges there's always the local classifieds. Interview at jobs outside aviation, you'll learn a lot about yourself doing that too.

Thanks de. It was making my eye twitch. Just like seeing "alot" so often.

my top pick regional asked during the interview if I had any "formal training". I assumed they meant an RJ course. I can't help but wonder if I could've said yes, if things would've turned out differently.

That one confuses me too. I know it's water under the bridge, but next time you aren't sure of what they're asking, tell them you need clarification. What on earth classifies as "formal training"?:confused:

I don't have a whole lot new to add, other than to echo a few others' opinions:

Absolutely contact Emerald Coast Consulting. I know plenty of people who have had GREAT success with them. They will teach you a lot about the interview process, and evaluate you on several different aspects of your experience, personality, etc and give you helpful ways of saying the same thing, but in a manner that will be best received by the interviewers. They will do over-the-phone interview prep, but if there's any way you can meet with them in person (they prefer this) definitely do it.

I also agree with not applying to airlines you do not want to work for. I agree that interview experience is helpful - but you've already been through two. I think you know the drill by now, and Emerald Coast can help get you prepped for any future interviews. I have it on good knowledge that many airline hiring departments talk to each other, and when they ask you, "Have you interviewed with anyone else?" - often, they already know the answer to that question. You don't want to put yourself in the position of having to explain why you've been on 6 interviews and turned them all down (or worse yet, lying to them).

And I also agree with your point - worse case scenario, you never know - you may want to get hired at that random airline sometime in the future. In this industry, for all you know, 6 months from now they could be awarded some huge contract with a hub in your home town, and then you'd seriously be regretting it.

I've got to commend you on something that I've noticed in your posts... No where have I detected a bit of defensiveness or justification in your attitude. I think that's awesome. You're being self-reflective and asking for help, and you're willing to do whatever it takes to get there. Absolutely, DO NOT GIVE UP. With that attitude alone, you belong in this industry. Your time will come. I got turned down by my #2 choice regional, and when it happened, I was devastated. I look back on it now, and the way things turned out, had I gotten hired, it would have tanked my career. It was one of the best "worst" things that ever happened to me. Best of luck to you. :)

Yeah, I see that alot too...*twitch*...:D

Did you get to the sim at RAH? That has been known to weed out otherwise qualified pilots from time to time here.

I would go to a reputable interview prep as suggested. Also, IMO, every HR dept. wants to know if you are completely truthful or full of BS. How to find out? Ask questions technical ?'s or ?'s on airplanes you have flown (pride factor on the line) until you get to a question you don't definitively know the answer , you have a good idea though, but the nag in the head just isn't 100% positive. How do you respond? Take a stab or simply state you are not positive about the answer and would have to look it up.? I believe they will press to get to a "I don't know" which means you are honest and humble enough to tell a professional you would look it up to be sure. They want that and they want to know you will. I always seemed to luck out and get it out pretty early <g>. Don't want a string of them, but as one HR person explained to me once, you want to know if the applicant will BS a Capt or check to make sure they are correct instead of just going with what they think the answer is if not positive. Makes sense.
Many of us have been turned down. I was turned down at my first choice since I was a kid coming out of the service. Best thing to ever happen to me. Made me really consider where to go. I went to a regional (commuter in the early 90's) just to stay in the profession since furloughs were starting to hit. It was there I decided where I really wanted to go. I had 3 top choices, all profitable airlines that always made money. Got lucky. So the first two you lost are giving you an opportunity to deal with a setback, find the strength to carry on like we all do, and get back. Yes,reapply and apply to others your willing to work for.
Just be too stupid to quit! All airline pilots share that disease <g>

he's baaaaaaaaack some guys on here missed you I think they have a entire thread on your where-abouts. What up SABB how's life?????

I think you have gotten lots of great advice in here, but I'll throw in my .02. Definetly get some practice interviews in. There's no practice like doing the real thing. You won't find youself blacklisted by any means. Also, you have more time at 1000/100 than alot of other interviewies out there. You are definetly hireable, and you will find your groove and nail a job down. Don't underestimate how much interviewing sucks. It's stressful for anyone so don't think you're the only dude that's been turned down. If they ask you about "advanced training" just reiterate your strong points in your flying and maybe throw out some experience you've gained through instructing. Dont worry about an RJ course. You've already put plenty of cash into your ratings. Best of luck! Relax, prepare and you'll be fine.

If its not the sim its that stupid Wonderlic test at RAH