Pinnacle scope ruling is in
 

It was announced tonight that the company has violated our scope clause section 1.2.f (i believe) and is required to comply with this section by putting fences in place to protect pinnacle pilots jobs, and eventually merge seniority lists between pinnacle and colgan pilots. of course our mec said the company will fight it but our arbitrator has stated he wants to remain in control of this grievance and will see that it is accomplished. it is a big win or a "slam dunk" as our mec chair guy said for our pilot group. an even bigger win is that the arbitrator has personally said in the letter that he will continue to oversee this and will not pass it on to someone else to finish. it was also announced tonight that the company is actually starting to work with our negotiating team to reach a deal and that there has been some real progress in communication and discussion. i wonder why?? :)

What is going to be the next step?

Great news guys. Keep sticking it to management. All this garbage is doing to them is costing them more litigation costs and retro pay in the long run.

the next step is for the union to go to the company with a proposal of how we want the merger to take place, what kind of fences will be up, and how the seniority lists will be combined.. of course this is after the company has fought the ruling. the delay we are seeing right now in getting things done is the company is writing their dissent to the ruling, but our mec guy said that is normal and has no bearing on the ruling. i wont think it is going to be any time real soon, maybe by years end.

Congrats guys.

VICTORY!

BTW, anyone notice any correlation between declining on-time numbers and the company actually willing to talk for the first time in several months?

What is the probability we will see Colgan pilots integrated on the Pinnacle list and we will have a contract?

Money talks... especially when you start messing with their own back pocket....

As stated before Pinnacle Corp will have their lawyers doing what they do. I would not expect to see any merging of any kind this year, maybe early next year. The truth is this type of thing can get tied up in court.

Here is a question for thought, Colgan votes ALPA in this August before merging pilot groups...any affect on what will happen?

No it can not get tied up in court because the arbitrator is the final word in the matter.

We had our chance to vote in ALPA. If we voted it in this PAST August PNCL ALPA MEC would have worked with us.

We declined and have to live with that decision.

Well, now that it appears fences will be in place at least until I've upgraded on the CRJ, I will openly welcome any Colgan pilot to be a part of our union...

I'm pretty sure this means all Colgan pilots will eventually have to become ALPA, since you can't exactly merge non-union pilots with union ones. Right?

NOW LET'S GET A CONTRACT AND SOME GOOD 900 RATES BOYS!!!!

You guys still have another vote coming soon. Do whatever you can to ensure that the Colgan pilot group sends a clear message to management, such as we did with our 99.3% in favor to walk if needed. It would be nice if both pilot groups could take on management together in the future to accomplish all our goals.

And good Slaab and Q400 rates!

Wonder how this will affect us over at ExpressJet. Continental just started replacing our flying with Colgan in EWR. Hopefully this will end up costing Continental more money than if they would've stuck with us.

Karma is a B*TCH!!!

nice job guys :)

Time for all UNION carriers to set minimum contract goals so the majors will be hard pressed to play one regional against another. Thank you for help setting the bar. Hopefully we here at 9E will follow suite and continue the push to create a better QOL at all regionals.

I am no legal expert but I do know this in respect to union arbitration.

The arbitrator’s decision is final and binding in most contracts. Both sides must accept the decision and cannot appeal to any higher step in the grievance procedure. An exception to this rule is noted when one side feels strongly that the arbitrator did more than interpret facts and rights under a contract or set of working conditions. (Contracts often say clearly that the arbitrator cannot change contract language or work rules.) In this situation, the loser may go to court to try to overturn the arbitrator’s decision.

Not saying it will happen but i doubt PNCL Corp will just say "OK, you win" given how stubborn they have been.

True.

The thing is though, if the company was going to file it in a court of law, they would have done so already. It was known a few weeks ago that it was going to be in favor of ALPA, the company would have contested it immediately.

IMO

Congratulations to everybody at 9E for the huge VICTORY. Keep up the great work, and give them hell.

Good luck,
Rudderdog

The language in this case is so clear that the company would have no standing in court. Overturning an arbitrator's ruling is an extreme rarity, especially in RLA law. I honestly can't remember when the last one happened. This ruling will stand, although the company could certainly try to delay for as long as possible. In the end, however, there will be one seniority list. Period. This was an amazing victory for ALPA. Anyone who constantly asks "what has ALPA done for me lately" now has a big answer.

Or set minimum contract goals that make the decision to put a nice 737 on it that much easier. I hate to say it but so long as there is free enterprise in the Majors then it has to exist here. Regulation could change that.

Good work guys!

So this may be a stupid question... but what does this mean to pilots just getting hired/ getting hired in the next few months at Pinnacle?

COngrats to both pilot groups, we now know that we can't be used against each other. Having said that, this is going to take a long time. I predict nothing will change by the end of the year and both companies will continue to operate as normal until something happens down the road.

Congrats, guys. At least now they can't use the threat of Colgan against you in negotiations. It's contract time.

Let 'em have it!

Congrats....Is there any memo or anything in regard to this? Is this actually official?

it is official. what i said at the beginning of the post is directly from the conference call we had last night. infact our mec chair read us the letter he received from the arbitrator on the conference call so it wasn't him paraphrasing or anything like that. like many people have said on here, the merger wont be quick, but it will happen. the company has now lost the chance to move our flying to colgan and then whipsaw us. since they bought them they will now have to merge them with us. not much more they can do. i think they next round of negotiations in the coming week will be pretty interesting.

They already offered us 15,000,000 extra in cash to do what ever we want with it over the course of the next contract, which would close the gap that was originally there. Only problem? They wanted us to accept their scope proposal that would basically wipe out the decision we just won

NO DEAL!

Here here!!

Congrats to all the Pinnacle guys. You just cleared a major hurdle to your next contract. Now don't settle for anything less than an industry leading contract. I know you guys have a lot of fight inside. Keep it up.


And yeah, ALPA!

Interesting question...

So Colgan pilots will eventually be on the same seniority list as Pinnacle pilots. I believe this means they will be represented by ALPA and thus represented under your CBA.

Does that mean the Pinnacle MEC is going to start negotiating Saab and Q400 rates?

If so, take a look at Horizon, Eagle, and Skywest for typical turboprop pay. You can ignore bottom feeders like Mesa, Lynx, Gulfstream, and Great Lakes.

If the list is merged before the contract is completed, then they would have to. If the list merger happens after the contract is signed, then the rates would have to be determined via arbitration just as the current -900 rates are being arbitrated. Or, the MEC could simply choose to negotiate the rates before the merger just to get it out of the way. That comes down to whatever they think will be the smarter strategy for getting the best rates. I could go either way on that. There are pluses and minuses with either route.

Glad you guys got what was right I have alot of friends in Ground Ops and Flight Ops at PNCL but just remember look what main line USair is trying to do and throw ALPA off Property does any one think that will happen in this Case?

Not a chance. 99.3% in favor of giving our MEC authority to walk if need be. The pilot group is unified and ALPA is here for a while.

whats the pcl rate for saab flying?

thanks for the Update

Turboprop Aircraft Captains
YOS 5/1/04
0-1 39.83
1-2 41.35
2-3 42.90
3-4 44.68
4-5 46.33
5-6 47.90
6-7 49.32
7-8 50.67
8-9 52.10
9-10 53.55
10-11 54.96
11-12 56.25
12-13 57.13
13-14 57.69
14-15 58.32



Turboprop Aircraft First Officers
YOS 5/1/04
0-1 20.73
1-2 24.39
2-3 25.65
3-4 26.99
4-5 28.04
5-6 28.75
6-7 29.14
7-8 29.27
8-9 29.27
9-10 29.27
10-11 29.27
11-12 29.27
12-13 29.27
13-14 29.27
14-15 29.27

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/image...colgan2007.gif

It makes me shudder seeing that "5/1/04"...4 years this May!!! Amenable for almost 3 years now.

The Allies conquered Nazi Germany and Japan simultaneuosly in WWII in less time than it has taken to negotiate an airline contract.

The arbitrator's ruling is a significant victory for us but for the moment is mostly symbolic. The real value of the ruling is the increased pressure on the company that in synergy with other factors, may result in achieving a fair contract before the end of time.

I do not expect a merging of lists any time soon. The company does have to come to the table to discuss this ruling however based on their past conduct, I would expect them to engage in every delay tactic conceivable. This process could drag on for some time and end up in court.

That being said, it is still a significant victory for the Pinnacle pilot group as represented by ALPA. This may signify a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel...