No more 200's for Mesaba, for now anyway
 

I said about a month ago that we would be flying 900's for northwest in the near future because mesaba isn't able to staff their planes right now. so we got a memo from the company that states that they are paying 150% to all fo's because we have been given more market hours than they planned on and the sending of crj's to mesaba has been delayed. so i called my buddy up and he said that the way he heard it is that we aren't sending any more 200's to mesaba because their staffing is in worse shape than ours. he said that yes we were given more flying, and with all the new routes nwa wants to start this summer they need the planes to stay at pinnacle, and even give us some of the 900's that mesaba has parked right now.

now for the second part. i also heard that mesaba/compass was taking over the "C" concourse again in memphis this summer. any one at mesaba heard this?

Dude... what are you smoking? You think you know a lot about what's going on at Mesaba... but you're usually wrong.

We have NO 900s parked. We are not short staffed and are not having any problems attracting, hiring and retaining pilots. In fact, we are over staffed on the saab. Jet training is starting to clear the backup and it will only get better when more planes are delivered. Plenty of pilots... they're just not all out of training yet. The more planes that get delivered, the more IOE can be accomplished and the backup is cleared. Our staffing issues are HARDLY as bad as yours over at Pinnacle.

We just took delivery of our 18th 900 and it enters service on March 5th. We'll be operating 17 lines of flying, with one spare. On March 10th, we will take delivery of the next 200. By mid April we will have 19 -900s and 9 -200s in active service, not including the spares.

The MEM 900 base opens in April and they'll likely be parked on the C concourse, where the main crew room is and where the avros used to park before they were retired.

Did you ever think that all this new flying you seem to be getting is for a reallocation of your 200s as your MSP flying decreases? As the XJ 200 flying increases yours shrinks and your planes have to fly somewhere.

the new 200 routes we are getting are ones we used to do back in the day before nwa filed for bankruptcy and stopped flying to those places. so i guess the word "new" isn't the one i should have used. i should have said "old routes that we will be flying to again" instead.

never said i knew a lot about what is going on at mesaba. i got the understaffed and c concourse info from a mesaba guy. and as far as the 200's pinnacle has been told to keep them for now. that is why our management is trying to pay more money to the pilots just so we can staff the planes they thought would be gone, but aren't going anywhere.

see if you read what i wrote and what you wrote we only differ on a couple of things, so getting all aggresive isn't necassary is it?

and actually msp flying is also increasing, not decreasing.

So basically you're posting heresay? What parked 900s are you talking about? What short staffing are you talking about? The vacancies for the jets continue to get published and filled and people are going to training. The issue with the 200 is that so many people are waiting for IOE. YOu can only fly so many hours in a day and since the planes started being delivered late, that created the initial backlog in training. The more deliveries will allow more IOE to be completed, thus cleaning up the backlog. If NWA thinks by delaying the deliveries to Mesaba is the solution to the "staffing issue" they're crazy. The info you're getting from your sources seem to contradict what really is taking place at Mesaba.

haha,, well since i don't work for management then aren't all rumors hearsay?

the no more 200's for mesaba thing was from a memo the company put out this weekend. i also called my buddy to see what is going on, so it is part hearsay and part memo from company.

the mesaba/compass taking over the c concourse was from a mesaba guy.

the short staff comment on the jets was from a mesaba guy.

the 900's not being delivered on schedule and some being parked was from a mesaba guy.

So you're admitting your posting rumors disguised as fact? =) Sounds like your Mesaba guy is full of bad info. Find a new source. We're still taking delivery of airplanes as scheduled. I'm not sure where he gets the impression there are 900s parked or are being delayed.

Did the memo say that your planes were being delayed? Or is that conjecture on your part?

C concourse stuff makes sense, since the 900 base opens in April.. they have to put the plane somewhere. The 175s are already flying to MEM and park on the B concourse.

well here let me quote it for you.

Due to Northwest marketing changes and delays in turning CRJ 200's over to Mesaba, we have incurred more block hours than our original plan. bla, bla bla, deficit of available first officers, bla bla bla, 150% pay (that no one should take) bla bla bla.

and remember just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. :) thats why i posted it here, to find out what others see as going on.

and the c concourse is where the avros used to be and i think mesaba still has an ops over there so that would be a perfect place for compass/mesaba to have a base.

and my source seemed like a nice enough guy. we were sitting at the delta gate watching basketball and having some popeyes!

Yes, it is true, there was a slight delay, some months ago, in starting the transfer of 200's to Mesaba. There is nothing new there. However, the latest vacancy staffed the 200's fully for all 17.

There is absolutely no shortage whatsoever of pilots at Mesaba. The jet guys are working through the pipeline. It does, however, take time to get them through.

It's just like "bored" said regarding 200 training. There was a big backup in training early on, due to us not having enough 200's and 200 flying to schedule all of the IOE required to get folks qualified. The more planes we get, the quicker the sign-offs for new pilots.

There is nothing happening at Mesaba to indicate a new, further, delay in the transfer of 200's.

INteresting... it seems that Uncle Phil is marching to a different beat than we are over here at XJ. There have been no indications that the 200s are being further delayed. Spanjers keeps talking about how they're being delivered, we're still staffing for them at 17 frames and training is working feverishly to get everyone on the line. So, once again - you guys are being told one thing and we're working as if the plan has never changed. Hmmm... who's right? Never trust mgmt. :confused:

Regarding the 900s on the C concourse... if you read my very first post I mentioned the 900s on the C. It only makes sense to park them there since that is where our main crew room is and the majority of our support staff etc... The A19 crew room is the second crew room to allow the saab drivers a place to go inbetween flights.

not to get in the crossfire to much but just because info came from a mesaba guy doesn't necessarily mean its true. I hear lots of guys blow smoke in the crew room.
Ive never heard anything about them parking 900's over here. But hey i guess i cant say much since im a saab driver. But yeah we are deffinetly fat on saab pilots we are even being offered voluntary time off without pay until more guys upgrade out of the saab or into the left seat. And as far as i have SEEN and heard we are just trying to get guys through the 900 training fast enough to get them on the planes. Not an issue with actually hiring or anything.
And as far as 200 flying if you are talking about pinnacle picking up more or old minnie flying well i guess i havent heard that one yet but thats the only place mesaba flys 200s anyway. Not our primary platform by any means.
The company did buy a brand new 200 sim and install it in minnie just 6 months ago though.
Just my two cents. Peace.

absolutley, you never trust management. the only reason i believe them this time is they are begging us to pick up flying for the entire month and everyone that does will get 150% pay. the only time i believe management is when they realize they are down and start throwing money at us to try and fix it.

Furthermore, we are NOT fat on Saab Captains. Reserve guys are being sent all over the system, several routinely break 75 hours on straight reserve and even reserve guys are being junior manned all the time.

TOWOPs are NOT appropriate for the Captain staffing we currently have. That just seems to be another penny pinching ploy from the executive suite.

i guess my previous post wasnt very good. I was illuding more toward FO's the saab FOs were a little overstaffed and like i said until FOs upgrade to captains faster and all thats another excuse for the TOWP. It is clear that saab captains are short not in excess when street captains are occasionally hired.

Would you consider this plea for picking up flying at 150% as a way to mask the underlying problems at Pinnacle? It's convenient to blame Mesaba and our issues and to gloss over the fact your airline is run by people who can't manage their way out of a paper bag. The fact is that you guys have a staffing problem that was out of control long before the 200s started coming to Mesaba.

As for our Saab staffing... I would say we are indeed overstaffed on saab pilots. OVERALL we're overstaffed. The staffing unfortunately is lop sided with more CA's than necessary in MSP and less in the other 2 bases. Therefore the need for out of base reserve. I suspect this will even out as more saab CAs from MSP leave for the jets.

agreed.

I guess they will still have the seat lock for saab captains released until it all balances out with captain staffing on the 900 as i understand.

you are preaching to the choir man. we have been and probably will always be understaffed. the company would normally just run it understaffed without the 150, but they must be really desperate for them to start throwing money around.

dont get me wrong man, i am not trying to say anything bad about mesaba. if thats why you came off so aggressive at first then it was a misunderstanding. i am not blaming mesaba for anything. the understaffing issues don't affect me at all. i still have 18 days off in march, and i will not pick up one single trip for this company. its not worth it.

They are offering 150 percent so they do not have to burn the reserves, and also because they need to cover the lines of those of us that have left, like rats jumping from a sinking ship. Get your resume ready and your strike fund up to par becasue you are going to need it!!!
average of 10 captains a month turning in their resignation! WHo knows how many FO's? SOme are leaving right out of ground school to go elsewhere.

what reserves?? :)

When did this memo come out? This past weekend? I checked CrewTrac and havent seen anything, I'm assuming its in our Vfiles.....

The company has been offering 150% pay alot lately. Ive had numerous JM voicemails saying I will recieve 150% for the trip and we also had the crewtrac message last month about staffing issues. Its fun to slowly watch the wheels fall off the ship.......

all 3 of them- 1 for each hub. lol

So what do you think the staffing level will be for the CRJ 200 at Mesaba?

We staff about 9 pilots per plane... so you can plan on about 170. That doesn't include mgmt, phantoms and stuff like that. The numbers might be a bit off, but it's a good estimation. Based on the latest 200 vacancy notice, we're up to 85 CA and 78 FOs. This closed a few weeks ago and the Captains start class on 3/3.

Certainly more plausible than the idea of Phildo speaking anything close to the truth. NW is doing management a favor -- we couldn't staff an additional 17 planes anyways. I talked with someone in Scheduling last week and they said the MSP base is continuing to shrink.

Now is that 9 total pilots per plane or 9 FO's and 9 CA per plane? I am just curious.

I believe its 9-10 total per plane. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

well i dunno. They said in class that they will continue to hire 200 guys every month and that was from a couple of weeks ago. So maybe its 9 of each? because if its total then they should have stopped hiring guys a while back.

If you look at the estimate of 10 crews per plane and I think we should end up with just over 100 planes, that pretty much matches the seniority list that we currently have. Just a thought.

Either way 200 a month is a way overshoot unless we get more airplanes in my opinion. As of 3/4/08 we are up to 60 new hires this year.

I would be willing to believe 20 new hires per month.

I think what he means is that they are going continue hiring into the CRJ200 every month.

A lot of the flow up guys are coming from 200 CA, so there should still be movement. Also, no 900's are parked, and even if they were, they can't contractually be flown by pinnacle anyway.

anyone know what the earliest DOH for a 200 CA is at Mesaba?

If anyone should be parking 900's it should be pinnacle, Here is the difference. Mesaba is accepting up to 4 aircraft per month and they are almost overstaffed. Pinnacle is getting rid of 2 aircraft and only accepting 1 per month and we are understaffed. Its because Phil Trenary and all the rednecks that run this rodeo are worthless. I used to think that he was just doing negotiating tactics, now I just think he is that dumb. I believe he has no idea what even goes on on the front lines.
He probably put out this memo to cover up their poor ability to staff this airline. Its not going to be long before Mesaba and Compass out perform the heck out of us.

I agree with everything you said. One thing I would like to add is that I have jumpseated on more than few Pinnacle flights and I have met some terrific pilots at Pinnacle. Fact of the matter is Major airlines are rethinking their strategy about using 50 seat RJs due this absurd fuel price increase. So I don't know what the future of CRJ200, E145s are. All I can say is that Pinnacle pilots deserve to be treated fairly by their management and at the moment they are not. Ideally, I would like to see all good pilots at Mesaba and Pinnacle get picked up by majors of their choice in 2008 or 2009. Best of luck to all of you at Pinnacle.

Well, it went down to 04/04 hire, but then they started releasing seat locks on SF34 CA's so it naturally went more senior again. That said, it's coming down very quickly and the latest guys to get it were around 6 or 7 years with the company with no signs of slowing down...

Out of curiosity, what is it for the Saab these days?

Hasn't been a lot of movement in the Saab's lately since they aren't backfilling the Saab CA's who move up to the jets. Last award to have any Saab CA vacancies was up to a whole 6 months. Not very long, but we were hiring street CA's not too long ago so the Saab upgrade time is at least temporarily on its way up.

with some DTW/MEM/MSP SF34 CA taking the CR9 CA spots we should hopefully see some more fairchild movement

Also some CR2 CA's took the CR9 in MSP which means more CR2 vacancies, which will likely come from MSP SF34 CA's

anyone have other thoughts on future Saab movement after this latest vacancy?

or maybe we are parking all the 200's? ;)