New to all this
02-21-2006, 03:02 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
New to all this
I am a first time poster. I am currently attending one of those high dollar flight schools. So far I have been pleased, but am still very new to all of the hiring process. I have always wanted to fly and couldn't find a way to do it locally, so when I lost my job as a truck driver I decided to come here. I am 33 yrs. old with a wife and a three year old son. I am concerned with all of the postings that I have been reading about pay and hiring. I could go back to driving a truck, but the lifestyle is about the same and I enjoy flying so much more. Any advice for a beginner is appriciated.
02-21-2006, 03:25 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Keep doing what your doing and stay positive, you can get a bit discourged along the way. If you keep reading on this website you'll get real discourged. The industry is down right now, but it will swing back up, it's like a ten year swing (up and down). Just hang in there. At you stage, I wouldn't read this site too much. Even at 33 you can still come out good. Get on with a regional in the next couple years and then you'll probalbly be with a major by the time your 40. Thats 20yr, might even be 25yrs if they move up the ret. By the time you get your hours, everthing in the industry might be headed in the rights direction. THINK POSITIVE. If flying is really what you want to do your going to have to ***** yourself for the next 5 to 7 years. Best advise is just stop reading negitive aviation and just keep positive in what you want to do. Start reading all this crap, before you go to a regional, so you don't go to a bottom feeder like Mesa or Freedom, ect.
02-21-2006, 05:19 PM
#3
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Get Ready !!!!
Originally Posted by WWflyboy
I am a first time poster. I am currently attending one of those high dollar flight schools. So far I have been pleased, but am still very new to all of the hiring process. I have always wanted to fly and couldn't find a way to do it locally, so when I lost my job as a truck driver I decided to come here. I am 33 yrs. old with a wife and a three year old son. I am concerned with all of the postings that I have been reading about pay and hiring. I could go back to driving a truck, but the lifestyle is about the same and I enjoy flying so much more. Any advice for a beginner is appriciated.
Man you are too old and have too many responsibilities to be taking this path right now. I would bet that there are more ex-pilots in trucking school than the other way around. Am I to assume that you don't have a four year degree either? In any case you should truly reconsider this. In the end you could be left with a huge bill and no job, or worse like actually getting hired at a regional at 18K per year. Think about it and do more research. Don't let these idiot punks fill your head with starry dreamy crap either. Most have a few hard lessons to learn themselves.
SkyHigh
02-21-2006, 07:35 PM
#4
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,232
You need to make sure you enjoy flying before you invest the time and money. My recomendation would be to get your private before you make any huge financial commitments. Not sure what school you're at, but what you really need to get into this industry are Private, Instrument, Commercial, Multi, CFI, CFII, MEI. This should cost about $30K, give or take a little. With these ratings there are all kinds of job opportunities to build time and get into a regional airline job.
If anyone is charging you more, you need to understand WHY. You DO NOT need training in airline procedures, turbine aircraft, regional jet simulators or any other crap that is not directly related to flying light twin and single-engine aircraft. I recommend you don't spend your money on this stuff, and I really hope that you haven't taken out a huge loan...
If your school has you signed up for a huge loan package and has sold you an overpriced program with a bunch of bells and whistles, I suggest you quit immediately. Take your money and get your training at your local airport so you can live at home with your family. A small-medium sized flight school can usually provide everything you need and should have enough resources to maintain your training pace.
With that being said, you and your family are young enough if your wife can work to make ends meet for a few years, and is supportive of this. I agree with your assessment that long term this is better than truck driving. BTW, you will need a 4 year degree to get a major airline job, but not a regional job. Spending a career at a regional would probably pay a little more than trucking, with a comparable lifestyle.
If anyone is charging you more, you need to understand WHY. You DO NOT need training in airline procedures, turbine aircraft, regional jet simulators or any other crap that is not directly related to flying light twin and single-engine aircraft. I recommend you don't spend your money on this stuff, and I really hope that you haven't taken out a huge loan...
If your school has you signed up for a huge loan package and has sold you an overpriced program with a bunch of bells and whistles, I suggest you quit immediately. Take your money and get your training at your local airport so you can live at home with your family. A small-medium sized flight school can usually provide everything you need and should have enough resources to maintain your training pace.
With that being said, you and your family are young enough if your wife can work to make ends meet for a few years, and is supportive of this. I agree with your assessment that long term this is better than truck driving. BTW, you will need a 4 year degree to get a major airline job, but not a regional job. Spending a career at a regional would probably pay a little more than trucking, with a comparable lifestyle.
Last edited by rickair7777; 02-21-2006 at 07:37 PM.
02-21-2006, 08:59 PM
#6
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
I agree with rickair. Also, stay positive, don't let our rantings on this board or flightinfo discourage you. I have a 2nd career that has supplemented my pilot salary for 8 years now (hopefully, I can quit the 2nd job soon) but when it comes down to it.....I would not give up the flying thing for any other job even if it meant more money. That being said, I have also had pretty good luck in the industry so far.....many people have been handed a $hit sandwich or two so they may feel differently. Good luck!
02-21-2006, 10:54 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 584
Flight training is expensive, but there are techniques to keep the cost to a minimum. Here are some things I've been able to put together:
-Train at your local flight school. You don't need fancy technology and a training academy name to learn to be a good pilot. I have a friend at UND and he's a great pilot, but I (a locally-grown private pilot) can fly the plane just as well as he can.
-Private pilot training should be your most expensive, because you have to do the vast majority of the flying with an instructor, which adds alot of extra cost.
-For the instrument rating only 15 hours of the 40 need to be instructional. After I did about 12 hours with my first IFR instructor, he was very pleased with my skills to that point and he "released" me to simply go up with safety pilots. I've gone up with several and did the same stuff i did with my CFII: practice my approaches, holds, communications, etc. The best part is that the safety pilots I went up with chipped in towards the rental cost.
-All the instructors I talk to tell me that once you finish private and IFR, it's mostly just time building to get commercial. They tell me that commercial, CFI, CFII, multi-engine, and MEI really aren't overly difficult in terms of manouvers. At least not as intense as primary training and IFR. This is where you can really save money, because you just need to log flight time (in a legal manner). Go up with other pilots and split the cost. Take turns under the hood so you can each log most of the total flight time and you get instrument practice at the same time. This doesn't mean you won't be gaining real experience. Every flight you make is a proficiency flight. Go up and practice your manouvers regularly. Stay sharp on ALL of your skills. Also, take the oppetunity to explore. Go fly someplace you've never been before. Take some friends up on their first flight in a small airplane, and see if they'd be willing to chip in for the rental cost; they almost always are.
-Traffic reporting: if you live close to a major city, chances are there are local flight schools that use Cessna 150s to do traffic reporting. My flight school in central NJ allows people to tag along and only pay for the instructor. The flights themselves are also good education. They last several hours so they build up your tolerable-time-in-the-airplane. It also gives me experience working in the New York class B.
-Friends can help you. Your relationships with the flight school can have positive effects. I have a friend whose an instructor and he's given me instruction for free (only pay for the aircraft). If you have a very close relationship with the school, they may let you take the planes up for a lower rate.
-If you're going to be doing alot of flying, joining a flying club could save you some money. Also, it gives you an oppertunity to socialize and NETWORK with other pilots, which is critical.
-Train at your local flight school. You don't need fancy technology and a training academy name to learn to be a good pilot. I have a friend at UND and he's a great pilot, but I (a locally-grown private pilot) can fly the plane just as well as he can.
-Private pilot training should be your most expensive, because you have to do the vast majority of the flying with an instructor, which adds alot of extra cost.
-For the instrument rating only 15 hours of the 40 need to be instructional. After I did about 12 hours with my first IFR instructor, he was very pleased with my skills to that point and he "released" me to simply go up with safety pilots. I've gone up with several and did the same stuff i did with my CFII: practice my approaches, holds, communications, etc. The best part is that the safety pilots I went up with chipped in towards the rental cost.
-All the instructors I talk to tell me that once you finish private and IFR, it's mostly just time building to get commercial. They tell me that commercial, CFI, CFII, multi-engine, and MEI really aren't overly difficult in terms of manouvers. At least not as intense as primary training and IFR. This is where you can really save money, because you just need to log flight time (in a legal manner). Go up with other pilots and split the cost. Take turns under the hood so you can each log most of the total flight time and you get instrument practice at the same time. This doesn't mean you won't be gaining real experience. Every flight you make is a proficiency flight. Go up and practice your manouvers regularly. Stay sharp on ALL of your skills. Also, take the oppetunity to explore. Go fly someplace you've never been before. Take some friends up on their first flight in a small airplane, and see if they'd be willing to chip in for the rental cost; they almost always are.
-Traffic reporting: if you live close to a major city, chances are there are local flight schools that use Cessna 150s to do traffic reporting. My flight school in central NJ allows people to tag along and only pay for the instructor. The flights themselves are also good education. They last several hours so they build up your tolerable-time-in-the-airplane. It also gives me experience working in the New York class B.
-Friends can help you. Your relationships with the flight school can have positive effects. I have a friend whose an instructor and he's given me instruction for free (only pay for the aircraft). If you have a very close relationship with the school, they may let you take the planes up for a lower rate.
-If you're going to be doing alot of flying, joining a flying club could save you some money. Also, it gives you an oppertunity to socialize and NETWORK with other pilots, which is critical.
Last edited by MikeB525; 02-21-2006 at 10:58 PM.
02-22-2006, 05:08 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Here's the flight school where I went IFR thru MEI back in the 90's. Great training and people, and it led me into several entry level jobs while I was trying to build time. If nothing else, it will give you a look at some of the more affordable training that is out there!
http://www.prairieairservice.com
http://www.prairieairservice.com
02-22-2006, 05:51 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
Im with MikeB and rickair on this one too (even though I went to UND). I followed a very similar path to what MikeB discussed. I got my private at a local FBO while back in high school. Because money was tight and I was going to school and working, it took me longer than it should have (about 70 hours) but it didn't cost me nearly as much as it would have at "pilot factory". Don't let a school sell you solely on their equipment. Yes, a brand new 172 with G1000s is nice and a good learning experience but not every airplane you jump into is going to have dual GPSs and a huge moving map display. I think its better to learn the hard/old way first. That way you have the basics and all those gizmos just make life easier. I laughed my a$$ off when I was in school and a DC-9 pilot from NWA came into my IFR procedures class and was talking about the -9 and how it didn't have a GPS. Just a sea of disbelief on all those fresh young faces.
Another phenomenom you'll discover with "pilot factories" is the bubble effect. In an area with intensive training, a set of de facto procedures develop themselves and then when you get out of "the bubble" where those don't apply, you are stumped! My favorite example is gassing up an airplane. I did it a million times while working on my private but because at UND we have these nice guys in a fuel truck who pull up and top you off the minute you jump out of the airplane, we have guys get all the way through CFI, etc who have NEVER put gas in a plane! "Ground the airplane before fueling, wtf does that mean!?" Moral of the story? All of my private students get gas on their first cross country wether we need it or not.
Bottom line, bells and whistles are nice but not always worth the cost. If you only want to fly for an airline (besides missing out on the true joys of flying), they will teach you what you need to know and how they want you to know it when you get there. Just make sure you weigh the costs and the benefits.
Another phenomenom you'll discover with "pilot factories" is the bubble effect. In an area with intensive training, a set of de facto procedures develop themselves and then when you get out of "the bubble" where those don't apply, you are stumped! My favorite example is gassing up an airplane. I did it a million times while working on my private but because at UND we have these nice guys in a fuel truck who pull up and top you off the minute you jump out of the airplane, we have guys get all the way through CFI, etc who have NEVER put gas in a plane! "Ground the airplane before fueling, wtf does that mean!?" Moral of the story? All of my private students get gas on their first cross country wether we need it or not.
Bottom line, bells and whistles are nice but not always worth the cost. If you only want to fly for an airline (besides missing out on the true joys of flying), they will teach you what you need to know and how they want you to know it when you get there. Just make sure you weigh the costs and the benefits.
