CitationJason

Hey Folks:

Interesting article on the Corporate Airlines Crash in Missouri in 2004.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...tigation_x.htm

I have some mixed and weird emotions regarding the article. I'd like you guys' take on the whole deal.

CJ

loudgarrettdriver

Exuastion + Get-there Itis = Bad News

Pilotpip

Add crappy wx as we had that day into the equation. Unfortunately this was one of those times where the fallibility of humans added up into a bad situation.

Being in St. Louis this one was a big story today. The media butchered it up quite a bit. They more or less said the aircraft "didn't have adequate warning systems to alert to low altitude". I'm assuming this means the jetstream didn't have EGPWS, which wasn't required at the time. They also had a free for all with the non-precision approach and how there are other systems available. IRK doesn't have anything other than non-precisions, at least they didn't the last time I was there.

I found an interview with the two surviors of this flight interesting. Both were injured pretty severly, one requiring about 9 surgeries since the accident. Both, however, agreed that they felt no bad feelings towards the crew because it was a mistake and nothing more.

The link at the bottom has a couple quotes from Woerth. The crew was in their 14th hour of duty time that day.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...1?OpenDocument

Tech Maven

Thanks for posting, makes for some chilling but interesting reading.

CitationJason

Thanks Folks.

I agree, it just seemed to be a whole lotta' small problems that compiled into a nasty situation. I fly for a 24/ 7 operation, and on some nights, we are hitting the 10th, 11th, 12th hour of duty time, and at night in IFR, you gotta' pull yourself together to a whole new level. I am not excusing the mistakes, I just wish people would understand the very demanding lifestyles of these pilots. This is why airline pay is currently unacceptable. (I better be careful, that sermon is for a different thread!) I just really was uneasy with how the article was written. Although their behavior was unprofessional, cussing didn't bring down that airplane. It's just one of those nasty situations.

Fly Safely!
CJ

Joeshmoe

I knew Capt Kim Sasse personally. In fact he was my instructor when I obtained my PPL. He was always very professional, detail oriented and one heck of a nice guy. Such a shame to see him go out the way he did. I had lost touch with him over the years and didn't know until last night he was piloting that aircraft when it crashed. Very sad indeed.

Blackhawk

Not to mention 6 legs, no autopilot, crappy weather. They had a duty in time of about 05:30, which meant they were probably up at 04:00, maybe earlier. Not sure what time they went to bed the night before, or if they were on duty the day before, but that would have been a factor too.
Been there, would have done that, but for the grace of God, some luck, and having good pilots sitting next to me.

B757200ER

Sorry for your loss, Joe. It would be better for all of us if Kim were here to tell us his story of what happened.

WWflyboy

That is really sad to hear this story. I'm at a flight school starting a new career because I fell asleep at the wheel of a big rig due to fatigue. I was hoping that the FAA was a little more strict on the hrs. of service than the DOT was. Guess not.

rickair7777

They didn't need to be particularly strict...the union contracts historically provided adequate rest at most carriers. That is all changing now that everybody's doing Ch.11 and throwing out their contracts.

ALPA's number one priority in life right now appears to be legislative improvements to airline rest requirements.