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-   Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/)
-   -   Regional VS Corporate (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/23646-regional-vs-corporate.html)

Deez340 03-15-2008 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 341110)
FlyHappy said most of what I wanted to say....

I left Air Wisconsin after just under 2 years in the right seat of the RJ for a pure 91 job as a co-captain on a 24 year old Citation II. I got to move back to the EXACT location my wife and I wanted to live in and my compensation was equal to if I had stayed at AWAC and upgraded. Most importantly to me, my QOL is outstanding...something even living in domicile at AWAC couldn't provide me.

Normally it is VERY difficult to make a jump from 121, especially a regional, to a corporate job. Why? One word-networking. The only reason I got my job was because I had strong recommendations from two friends (one current and one former pilot for them) to the owner. Its kinda hard to network for a corporate job by sitting in a crewroom in PHL, ATL or ORD, and its not as simple as walking into a Million Air somewhere and handing out resumes.

Ever heard the term "airline stink"? Corp operators often are biased against airline folks because their old airline habits die hard, and they lack the required customer service abilities (think concierge) to succeed in the job. Driving the airplane is easy....but most everything else (being your own dispatch/scheduling/mx control) is foreign. That bias isn't always fair, but its out there. Going from a regional to a 135 operator or a fractional for a year or two, as previously mentioned, is a great way to "wash" away the "stink".

90% of the time, the only way you are even considered for a F500 job (definitely a F100 job) is by having networked extensively AND having a strong resume. You may have the first part, but coming straight out of flight school odds are strong you'll substantially lack on the second part. A regional can serve a means to that end by quickly providing quality multi-turbine time, but you've got to develop and maintain the relationships you've made in 91/135 while working at a regional for it to be of any real benefit to you.

A corporate job does not automatically mean you'll be satisfied with your career. There are lots of crappy corporate jobs, many decent/good ones, but very few GREAT ones. I'm REALLY happy in my position and will only leave voluntarily for that great "brass ring" job...
Not a flame.... I promise. Seriously, I'm just curious what your "brass ring" job would be? Also, your post is dead on with regards to top tier corporate jobs.

UCLAbruins 03-15-2008 02:45 PM
If you land a corporate gig, it won't be flying a jet, most likely a Prop (king air, PC 12, Avanti, etc). You'll make more $$$ flying corporate than at the regionals, but its going to take you an eternity to build your time. My advice, go to a regional, there you'll get 1000 turbine hrs a year, as oppose to 300 flying corp. Working at a regional sucks, and you won't be happy, but unfortunately its the quickest way to a career job. I did the regional thing for 4 years, and I was actually thinking about leaving aviation when Airtran and Netjets hired me. I took the NJ job. Right now I can't think of a place I would leave NJ for.

FlyHappy 03-15-2008 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by TwinTurboPilot (Post 341351)
This is my opinion only, I think a good middle ground is a 135/management outfit. Its where I started I had more than one opportunity to go to a straight 91 outfit with great QOL and pay, stay in 135 long enough and your competitive at the majors, and probably even more competitive at the fractionals since its essentially the same thing, and the regionals for the time being at least are always hiring and it dosent take much to be competetive there. Now QOL usually is not to great at places like this but it makes a good stepping stone.
You'd better be damn careful about what 135 outfit you go with. You have ones like Seagate with 9 on and 5 off or Southern Air Services with their "no set time off" for just two great examples. As I said, there's some bottom feeder 135 outfits that will hire no-time pilots as SICs, pay them nothing, treat them like crap while dangling the "carrot" of jet time (and they do the same for PICs as far as low pay and poor QOL). Also, 135 time does not necessarily make you competitive for the majors. With the number of 121 pilots in the market place today, most majors want to see 121 time, not 91 or 135 time. Not saying one type of flying is better than the other -- you just need to figure out your ultimate career goals and what fits best for you. Also, I think a lot of 121 pilots have the misconception that all corporate flying is big bucks. That is not at all true. You may have a higher starting wage (I know of no corporate flying that pays by the hour -- it's all salary whether you fly once a month or every day), but pay raises and opportunities for advancement can be very limited. As an example, a recent corporate job I know about involved a one aircraft, two pilot shop. They were looking to start someone in the low 40s with limited annual pay raises, no benefits and the only way to move up would be if the chief pilot decided to leave -- even then they brought in a new chief pilot over junior guy that was there when the last chief pilot left (I suspect that had something to do with that guy leaving and opening up the junior spot again). The grass is not necessarily greener on the corporate side. There's a few very high paying, great QOL corporate jobs out there, but for almost all of those you need to be a legacy or happen to be in the right place at the right time.

BoilerUP 03-15-2008 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Deez340 (Post 341388)
Not a flame.... I promise. Seriously, I'm just curious what your "brass ring" job would be?
Given my current position and my current situation, UPS (where I've wanted to work since I was 11 years old since I'm a KY native) or a few choice F500 companies that provide financial and career upside that a small employer with a single light jet and two pilots simply cannot offer.

I'm REAL happy in my current gig...

de727ups 03-15-2008 03:49 PM
"It all my years in the business I have never met a major airline pilot that came straight from 135 only."

UPS, before the ANC domicle, would hire from a wide variety of backgrounds, to include corporate and 135 turbine. I think those guys had as good a chance as a 121 freight guy. Things changed with the ANC domicle, though, and they started really favoring over water as ANC is a junior base.

I don't see why a 135 guy years of G4 experience wouldn't equal a 121 RJ Capt with the same.

Deez340 03-15-2008 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by de727ups (Post 341502)
"It all my years in the business I have never met a major airline pilot that came straight from 135 only."

UPS, before the ANC domicle, would hire from a wide variety of backgrounds, to include corporate and 135 turbine. I think those guys had as good a chance as a 121 freight guy. Things changed with the ANC domicle, though, and they started really favoring over water as ANC is a junior base.

I don't see why a 135 guy years of G4 experience wouldn't equal a 121 RJ Capt with the same.
I was just making a factual statement regarding my professional experience. Not making a judgment on whether the policies that created the observation were necessarily logical or fair. Also I should have clarified that I was talking about major pax airlines. I actually do know a few major cargo guys that came solely from 135.

TwinTurboPilot 03-15-2008 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by de727ups (Post 341502)
"It all my years in the business I have never met a major airline pilot that came straight from 135 only."

UPS, before the ANC domicle, would hire from a wide variety of backgrounds, to include corporate and 135 turbine. I think those guys had as good a chance as a 121 freight guy. Things changed with the ANC domicle, though, and they started really favoring over water as ANC is a junior base.

I don't see why a 135 guy years of G4 experience wouldn't equal a 121 RJ Capt with the same.
Thank you that was what I was about to say, I would never give someone horrible career advice I am only going by what I have personally seen. 2 guys at the 135 place i used to work for went straight to a major while I was there, 1 to CAL and 1 to SWA the one at SWA did have 2 recs though. I was fortunate enough to work at a company that had several large biz jets that i got into the right seat of after a few months, and did extensive international flying to central and south america and was fortuante enough to get one trans atlantic crossing. I believe UPS even had a trans atlantic crossing as part of the requirements to get hired there for a while, but i heard they dropped it. I agree though I dont see why a G2 captain and a 121 rj captain with similar times wont both be competitive at a major. Anyway i dont want to start an argument I am by no means an expert bottom line is in this career I think most will agree jet time is jet time and its all about who you know.

FlyHappy 03-15-2008 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by de727ups (Post 341502)
"It all my years in the business I have never met a major airline pilot that came straight from 135 only."

UPS, before the ANC domicle, would hire from a wide variety of backgrounds, to include corporate and 135 turbine. I think those guys had as good a chance as a 121 freight guy. Things changed with the ANC domicle, though, and they started really favoring over water as ANC is a junior base.

I don't see why a 135 guy years of G4 experience wouldn't equal a 121 RJ Capt with the same.
Most 135 jet jobs are in light jets (Citation 500 series, Beechjets, Lear 25/35/45, etc). G4s are at the very top of the pecking order and you'd have to have several thousand hours to even be considered for that kind of job -- PLUS be very well connected. By the time a business jet pilot gets to that point, they're pretty much committed to business jet flying, so comparing a G4 Capt to a 121 RJ Capt isn't exactly apples to apples. I don't think too many G4 capts would be inclined to give up that gig for anything else -- they ARE the ones making $$$ in the business jet world. Again, I think it all comes down to a person's career goals -- if your ultimate goal is to fly 121, then it probably makes sense to pursue the regional route to increase your competitiveness. If your goal is business jet/corporate flying, then going with a REPUTABLE 135 company might not be a bad deal.

boiler07 03-16-2011 02:29 PM
So i understand the importance of choosing the regionals vs corporate carefully, and how it can give you airline "stink", according to some, if you try to go back to corporate from the regionals. As a soon to be graduate, no one will argue that the decision i'm facing is a tough one. (at least from my perspective) I have the option to apply at a few regionals right now, or to stay at a local flight school. The school pays well (as well if not better than a regional) and also has 2 piston aircraft it uses for 135 ops...no turbine though. My ultimate goal is to be on the corporate side of the house. Do fractional or better known 135 companies perceive the "airline stink" like some F500 companies or private owners might? Would it hurt me to go to the regionals to build some turbine time, PIC if i stay long enough, and then go to a fractional/135?

BoilerUP 03-16-2011 03:15 PM
Networking will help you FAR more to get a business aviation job than having "airline stink" will hurt you.

If you're graduating in 2 months with an eye on business aviation, don't hesitate to take a regional airline job where you can quickly build quality time that will bolster your experience and increase your insurability...but definitely continue to build your network and maintain existing relationships while working there.


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