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Is this normal?
I recently heard a story from a fellow CFI about check airman at TSA. I guess he has a tendency to hit people, (in the face) throw things, and break things during sim sessions. Has anyone else heard of this guy? I leave his name out but I hear he has a reputation. :confused:
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No that is not normal....
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I'd be the last guy he hit.................
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Originally Posted by TchNgo
(Post 345404)
I recently heard a story from a fellow CFI about check airman at TSA. I guess he has a tendency to hit people, (in the face) throw things, and break things during sim sessions. Has anyone else heard of this guy? I leave his name out but I hear he has a reputation. :confused:
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I have to agree. I can't imagine anyone going that far. I tell you if he ever did it to me it be the last thing he ever did.
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Originally Posted by CRJDriver
(Post 345417)
I'm gonna call the BS flag on that one. I think he'd be long gone if he really hit people in the face.
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I'd beat his ass.
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I know, that's what I was thinking.... I do believe this though since the guy I heard this from was the one who got popped in the face for missing a non flying pilot callout.
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...it's the constant whippings from management that you have to get used to...
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Originally Posted by 121PyLut
(Post 345463)
...it's the constant whippings from management that you have to get used to...
Ha... Sad but true |
Originally Posted by rorwizard
(Post 345464)
Ha... Sad but true
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Completely normal unless the student starts bleeding I do not believe a post like this is even started. If this was true and it was ever done to me, I will stick his you know what up his you know what, just a thought.
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Years ago at Eagle a certain sim instructor would hit you with a stick if you screwed up. Now he just yells a lot for no reason.
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OJ Simpson has a temper as well.
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Nice one Juice.
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There are some real A-hole check airmen at TSA however there is no way in this day in age that anybody could get away with something like that. Lawsuit city.
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I think If this is the guy I'm thinking about... the story has been a bit exaggerated. This guy I know would swipe your hand away if you're about to press the wrong button, yells a lot and possibly have thrown papers and whatever around in the sim, but I don't think it's as bad as your story sounds. Still wrong in my opinion, just not as bad as the story sounds.
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Well FSI has a few passionate instructors who would do interesting things to get you to learn. Hitting you in the face wasnt one of them. As for check airmen I think I would have heard that story second hand from one of my classmates since we all just took checkrides.
I dont know...I have the BS flag ready to rise on this one... |
As long as I am bigger than him his ass would be beaten. If he was bigger I would beat him with something heavy- crash axe comes to mind. Physical violence has NO place in the cockpit.
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there is a guy at an airline on the east coast that is a check airman and has been accused multiple times of htting fo's!!! i don't want to say which airline or base, but I am sure some of you already know.
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I've heard of a couple of guys having their hands swiped as they were about to press a wrong button,.....but being hit in the face?..are you serious?
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When dealing with a "check airman" you should be dealing with a highly professional and very standard individual. If they are resorting to physical violence or even oral abuse he should be reported and be stripped on his/her check airman status. I would never encourage fighting in the cockpit but I don't know how to react if someone purposely hit me in the cockpit. Not cool either way. Call your ALPA rep and get in touch with your union part of professional standards.
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My friend never reported it, because after the sim sessions this guy was going to be the check airmen as well, and he didn't want to start drama that may affect the checkride. I told him if this really happened than he needs to report it and should probably take legal action. In then end he was failed by this same guy. (Not sure how legal action against an airline that hired you looks to other airlines you are trying to get hired by....) I know there are those that are waving the BS flag on this one, but I am pretty sure he is telling the truth.
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Originally Posted by TchNgo
(Post 345972)
My friend never reported it, because after the sim sessions this guy was going to be the check airmen as well, and he didn't want to start drama that may affect the checkride. I told him if this really happened than he needs to report it and should probably take legal action. In then end he was failed by this same guy. (Not sure how legal action against an airline that hired you looks to other airlines you are trying to get hired by....) I know there are those that are waving the BS flag on this one, but I am pretty sure he is telling the truth.
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Maybe I should have said, "Does this happen a lot?" I realize this is not normal in the real world....The aviation field does have a lot of non-standard practices. Plus I wondered if anyone else had this problem at TSA with the same guy. Also I wondered what advice to give my friend.
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Originally Posted by TchNgo
(Post 346001)
Maybe I should have said, "Does this happen a lot?" I realize this is not normal in the real world....The aviation field does have a lot of non-standard practices.
Originally Posted by TchNgo
Plus I wondered if anyone else had this problem at TSA with the same guy. Also I wondered what advice to give my friend.
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I agree totally. I don't think I could have sat there and taken it. I didn't think it was normal at all, I had never heard of anything like it. I just wanted to ask on here to see if I was just completely naive.
Also I agree with the previous poster saying this is one of the most standard industries, I do think that the hiring process and training class are definitely not the norm when compared to other industries. (Not saying that other specialized training isn't similiar, but definitely not the majority.) :rolleyes: So now that he was failed out of ground school on the last sim, does he speak up now? Or does he forget about it since it may look like he is trying to retaliate against the person who failed him, and the airline itself? Would doing so affect his chances at the next airline he tries for? There was another witness to all this, (his sim partner and fellow CFI from the same place we work) but I don't know as to his willingness to vouch for the situation do to his new employment at TSA.... Thoughts? |
Originally Posted by TchNgo
(Post 345404)
I recently heard a story from a fellow CFI about check airman at TSA. I guess he has a tendency to hit people, (in the face) throw things, and break things during sim sessions. Has anyone else heard of this guy? I leave his name out but I hear he has a reputation. :confused:
A guy at my flight school apparently had that happen to him.... |
Originally Posted by TchNgo
(Post 346084)
Thoughts?
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Meow how did you know? (sorry had to throw that in after seeing your avatar...:D)
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OK, this one is hard to blow.
Did he get knocked out on sim 1 or 2, or did this happen on sim 10. He had 9 sim sessions to report this act to the manager of training. He could have changed instructor. Another check airman or something. Now, if this is true FlightSafety records the sim sessions, atleast that was the story I was told during my training. If he was on sim number 10 he was having a hard time with training because TSA only does 8 from what I recall. Am not saying he is a bad pilot, just bad luck on this side. I did not know your sim instructor could be your check airman. I think that was the reason he got knocked out. He had the checkride gouge first hand from the man himself, and he was still mesing up. Please, I beg you in the name of Hulas, do not start a story that might not be true, you could hurt someone's career. I wish him WELL on this future plans. |
Originally Posted by Pokerpilot
(Post 346245)
OK, this one is hard to blow.
Did he get knocked out on sim 1 or 2, or did this happen on sim 10. He had 9 sim sessions to report this act to the manager of training. He could have changed instructor. Another check airman or something. Now, if this is true FlightSafety records the sim sessions, atleast that was the story I was told during my training. If he was on sim number 10 he was having a hard time with training because TSA only does 8 from what I recall. Am not saying he is a bad pilot, just bad luck on this side. I did not know your sim instructor could be your check airman. I think that was the reason he got knocked out. He had the checkride gouge first hand from the man himself, and he was still mesing up. Please, I beg you in the name of Hulas, do not start a story that might not be true, you could hurt someone's career. I wish him WELL on this future plans. The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around. So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer. |
Originally Posted by TchNgo
(Post 346304)
Here is how I heard the story. He said that he and his partner did fine for the first 8 sims. Then one night they were going through the company ops manual and realized that their sim instructor had been teaching things differently. They brought this to the attention of TSA and they told them that the flightsafety sim guy had taught them Chautauqua's profiles.
I dont mean to jump off here but that is exactly what happened to me and my sim partner. Now the only thing that saved us was that we had basically ingested the SOP and had been over all the DVDs a few times so we knew when something didnt sound right. My best adivce for someone coming to FSI for TSA would be to just know the SOP stuff. If not at least review what you just did in the SOP when you get back home to make sure youre doing it right. To correct this they would be assigned a new sim instructor, do 2 sim sessions, then that same instructor would be the check airman as well. (This is the guy who the incident occurred with supposedly.) He hit him in the face on the first sim when he missed a non flying pilot callout. Then throughout the rest of that sim as well as the next he was yelling and swearing, plus hitting, breaking, and throwing chairs. Okay when you put it this way it does sound a little familiar. I didnt have any first hand experience with anyone like that but I did hear a few things through the grapevine about actions like that. I dont remember any names or anything. The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around. So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer. |
If this is happening as you guys have pointed out.
Salukipilot4590: Okay when you put it this way it does sound a little familiar. I didnt have any first hand experience with anyone like that but I did hear a few things through the grapevine about actions like that. I dont remember any names or anything. Then, we as a pilot group need do something. Email, call, text, telegram, this information to ALPA/Pro Standards. If we keep this to ourself, one day a mad man will be loose and one of our fellow brother will get hurt. I am very disappointed that no one has reported this mad man. If, and only IF it's happening. |
Sounds like a bunch of exaggerations to me. I find it hard to imagine that a sim/check instructor is screaming and breaking things in a sim. Sounds like someone raised their voice and feelings got hurt.
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The sim instructors at JAL and Korean all have a stick that they hit people with when they flip/press the wrong switch. Another famous JAL & Korean training event is to know all of the CB's by heart, they are supposed to locate them blind folded. Now this is serious training
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Sounds like somebody's feelings got hurt by DC. He yells and gets very abrasive but I can assure you he'd be losing a job if he physically struck somebody.
Tell you buddy to man up and pass it the second time around. I did ;) |
Originally Posted by TchNgo
(Post 346304)
Then throughout the rest of that sim as well as the next he was yelling and swearing, plus hitting, breaking, and throwing chairs.
The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around. So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer. Also, so CHQ doesn't teach people to perform missed approaches, especially when inside the FAF? I don't know, I'm not trying to knock your friend here, but the story sounds greatly exaggerated. And if he does decide to report it, which is perfectly acceptable if there was indeed any type of abuse, I'd recommend that he leaves the exaggerations out, because the chair part alone would cast a shadow on the whole story. |
Oh, Man!
I would have whipped his a$$ like a rented mule.
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