Incidents and Interviews...
 

Okay here's the story:

A student here at the flight school where I instruct at went up for his ME Comm Checkride last week. While he was doing an engine out landing he forgot to lower the gear (my guess is because he was under stress and forgot to lower it). The sad part was that neither the examiner nor the student realized the gear wasnt down until they were floating half way down the runway. They did a go around and i guess somewhere during the acceleration process they dinged one of the props. The good news is that there wasnt any engine damage. However, he had to fill out an FAA statement about it. They said that it could either be recorded as an incident or an occurance (no engine damage).

The poor kid is now freaking out because he's worried that potentially having an incident on his record could ruin his chances at working at an airline. I know that they ask that question during interveiws and stuff. What's your guy's take? The FAA hasnt come to any conclusion yet.

Tell him that he doesn't need to worry. Just explain exactly what happened and what he has learned from the experience. Just don't try to rationalize it in any way.

Plenty of guys have much worse than incidents on their record and it has had no effect on their carreer's.

I was once told by an FAA POI that its not whether you have anything on your record or not, It is what you have learned from the experience. He believe in almost all cases it has made a guy a better pilot.

Glad it didn't get any worse(life threatening, paralysis, etc). I would definitely freak out if that happened to me. The good thing from this is he will NEVER forget to lower that gear again. This experience can be a good thing especially from such an early stage. I hope all works out for him.

Maybe he should quit now and start making real money outside the aviation... And yes I know that some people don't do it for the money but if he wants a house or a family someday, then maybe this isn't such bad thing...

Tell him to avoid American Eagle and AA. They don't give the time of day to anything with anything on their record, no matter what happened and who's fault it was. ExpressJet, Delta, Continental, Horizon, Air Wisconsin, and Northwest have concerns, but they'll interview and hire someone with an accident, incident, or occurrence on their record.

Just so ya know, some places are asking, “Have you ever been investigated by the FAA and/or NTSB?” If you ever had a ramp check, the answer is yes.

Seriously? Ok... so this kid is on his ME comm. checkride and your going to tell him to get out now, after he's spent a mere 50 or so grand on flight training... I really have an issue with all of the people on here who b***h and moan about QOL and pay, you knew this BEFORE you ever started working towards your pilot certs, and furthermore you're really not that much better of in other industries most places you will make somewhere between 20 - 30 K your first year out of college, and thats sitting behind the same old desk every day, where we get to do what we love. Yeah, your right being a pilot is terrible.

Rant over.

He'll be fine. If it gets classified as an occurrence he has nothing to worry about, if it gets classified as an incident it can be explained away at an interview especially since he wasn't the PIC, and the check airman should have been there to stop this from ever happening.

hmm. i am married have kids and a house in a nice area (as nice as you can get in memphis i guess :) ) i have a pretty good life.

None of my friends make 20k their first year so I really don't know if you are referring to a janitor or some other blue collar job. Plus they work 40 hours per week and get to be home for every weekend and every holiday out there and they did not spend additional 50k in ratings. If you expect pilots to a certain level of responsibility then maybe we should be getting paid like responsible adults and not like kids living with their parents because they can't afford a crappy apartment. How is that OK with you? Need I add that as pilot with every new job you ALWAYS start with a first year pay? A college graduate only makes first year pay once in their lifetime. As long as pilots like you keep telling themselves that it's OK to work for peanuts this profession will keep sinking. Maybe instead of defending this business we should tell public how it really is and that way we spare some poor soul of making the mistake that I made by becoming a pilot. But I assume that for the most of us it's easier to deny how poorly we are treated because it's much cooler to tell other how awesome we have it... The fact is that most of us on these forums are here because that's the only place where we can ***** and remain anonymous and not embarrassed of how crappy things are.

Then quit and go work 40 hours a week.

Problem solved.

I did. The problem is solved for me but I just thought that maybe if not for the wrong attitude of pilots that want to fly for free maybe I could still be flying and and earning a living at the same time....OK I am done.

Fair enough. Good luck to you.

Dude where did you work? Can I have your seat and your stripes?

Just out of curiosity... what airline did you work for? and what do you do now that you're not a pilot anymore?

I make $60 a year at my desk you and I hate it......keep flying

so, neither of them cuaght the GEAR WARNING HORN>???? what were they flying?

Well, My guess would be that if they were practicing an engine out landing, they muted the gear horn and if they were flying a light twin, they probably never needed to put the flaps down, which would have trigger the horn again, so one thing led to another and walla, you have the present situation. I can see it happening, though there is no excuse for the examiner to not have caught it. Although...now that I am thinking, where was the GUMP check on final?????
:rolleyes:

i gues it's possible and I know the applicant is executing the authority of PIC on the check-ride, but geez the examiner should have cuaght somthing like that especialy since he was the one that failed the engine on the appicant in the first place. He could have simply told the applicant to go around multi-engine or take the controls land and talk about the pink slip on the ground.

There are two types of pilots. Those who have landed gear up and those who will.

I know at least 4 individuals who have struck tips or slid in for a perfect no point landing and work full time in the aviation world. One is a 747 captain. One is a CRJ Captain. One is an A320 FO, and the other is a Challenger 604 captain.

At the end of the day it isn't the fact that you had an accident. It's the circumstances surrounding that event (no negligence), and the fact that you learned from it.

I can guarantee you that somebody that has had to use a crane to get the plane back on the ramp isn't going to belly land EVER again in their career.

I was given a conditional offer from Eagle a few months and planned on going there in May. I had a gear collapse about 2 months after the interview...left main collapsed on landing...it was found to be mechanical...I called Eagle shortly there after and they just had me submit a written statement. They haven't gotten back to me yet; its been about a week...do you think this will get me the boot???

not to sure. They probably needed he letter for the captains review board. I'm nt sure when the meet every month but it might not hurt to just give a call and ask about your status. Good Luck.

Sure I could be making a bunch more money than I am now but i wouldnt be happy behind a desk, My office is the sky, what better job can I find being happy than that. Stick with the flying

[quote=rorwizard;347368]Seriously? Ok... so this kid is on his ME comm. checkride and your going to tell him to get out now, after he's spent a mere 50 or so grand on flight training... I really have an issue with all of the people on here who b***h and moan about QOL and pay, you knew this BEFORE you ever started working towards your pilot certs, and furthermore you're really not that much better of in other industries most places you will make somewhere between 20 - 30 K your first year ...quote]

20 to 30K your first year??? Maybe with a basket weaving degree or something. Most start in the mid 40's.

removed due to misreading previous posting

I would be one of though pilots that have experienced landing with the gear up. Not to go into all the details but I was giving a 141 stage check, gear didn't come down, all the gear warning indicators didn't go off, and skidded a PA44 to a screeching halt. Worst feeling in the world! Anywho, did some recurrent training with the FAA, my chief pilot, and after 2 years my record is clean as a whistle. I was still able to get an airline job with this on my record so it isn't a complete career killer. Just be open and up front with it in a interview and talk about what you learned from it. Now......I check that F'in gear a hundred times before every landing.

my little gear incident was also in a PA44...and you'll probably agree with me...never again will you land uneventfully and not be a little relieved that everything went okay...

to be honest this is the way I feel every single time a landed a seminole and any retractible gear airplane that I fly now. No landing is "uneventfull". Thats just somthing that was instilled in me from private pilot days. I'm not saying it wont happpen to me cuase in this business anything is possible. Look what happened to the Eagle guys up in Boston a few years back. like your landing, everything was telling you good to go, but I bet if you looked in the convex mirror (if your PA-44 had it) you wouldnt have seen the nose gear down and locked.

That's a heck of a blanket statement. They don't look at ANYONE with even an INCIDENT? I mean, considering the list of things that could be an incident, I think that's kind of stupid really on their part. A mechanical failure of one of the mains on a 182RG I was flying forced me into a gear-up landing, which is the only incident on my record. I kind of feel like I proved something by successfully landing without totaling the airplane, or putting a scratch on me or my student. It didn't seem to bother the airlines I interviewed for. Granted I was 98.6° and had a pulse...

like i said before i had an incident...i also have a conditional offer from Eagle. i got a letter today from the faa saying i need to take a 709 ride...if my offer with Eagle done? or do i still have a shot? i told them shortly after it happened and sent them the paperwork they wanted...they just never got back to me.

Update:
Turns out the kid only got a warning from the FAA put on his record, and they didnt take any action against him. Does that still mean he has an incident on his record? Does that still hurt his chances of applying for airlines?

Wow. I was surprised to read that statement about American Eagle. Given their need for pilots, I'm surprised they would be so dismissive of applicants without even hearing their side of the story. Sometimes accidents and incidents are truely accidental. Landing gear-up or fuel starvation is a bit different from suffering an unexpected engine failure that results in aircraft damage.

I was under the impression that the deciding factor between an accident and an incident was the dollar amount of the damage to the aircraft. It would seem to me that carelessness and negligence should be much more important factors in determining an applicants abilities. I think accidents and incidents go off a pilot's record after five years now as well.

Just as a side story, I was involved in a landing mishap while acting as a CFI four years ago. The student pilot lost control of the plane in gusty winds 30-40 above the ground. The plane veered to the right and I took over and landed the plane. Unfortunately, the plane bounced back into the air, drifted in the wind even more, and ended up clipping a taxi sign. The FAA examiner said she saw no negligence in my actions, deemed it an accidental accident, and even offered to write a letter stating so if I ever interviewed at an airline. I learned more than you could ever imagine from that experience.

I reluctantly decided to hang up the wings about a month ago though.

Whatever happen to GUMP Checks at 1k, 500', and threshhold... - thats how I learn, and most people I fly complex a/c with do somewhat similar checks.

any update on the examiner? Isn't an instructor responsible for the student at all time while in the training environment? So is the examiner responsible on a checkride (im clueless)

That only thing that will hurt him is if he goes to the interview dressed up like your avatar. good luck to the student

The examiner got a warning also, but they say on checkrides that the student is PIC.

Everybody loves Uncle Rico...