Is it too late to Get on With Mesaba?
 

Given the recent hiring craze there the last little while, I was wondering what the outlook is for a new hire there, especially now that things are slowing down there. If the outlook is still good, as far as getting in, through training in good time, and to the line, with minimal time on reserve, what would the interview process be like for someone with 121 time, ie....in the -200? thanks for any info....

ps--I am considering a lateral move, eliminating a commute, and living close to where I grew up.

I'd be very careful with lateral moves right now. With airlines starting to reduce flying, parking airplanes, asking for voluntary COLAs, you might be better off staying at your current employer. I wouldn't want to be at the bottom of the seniority list right now...

Agreed! Suck it up and stay where you are if you can. It's gonna be a rocky ride for the next year or two with oil prices, merger possibilities and a recession (whether real or percieved). You don't want to be on the bottom of a seniority list and become furlough fodder.

It would also matter on where you want to be based. MSP tends to run more senior, and if that's where you want to be, it might take longer to get there, the lower on the list you are.

how long to get MSP?

depends on equipment, all 200's are based there so thats a given, the saab will be a while, i would guess longer than a year considering i have waited over 6 months and have yet to be awarded it. the 900 i would guess a long time as well as there are many new hires who are dtw or mem based just waiting to get msp

The MSP-900 might get surprisingly low this next award. Very possible that people from the Jan. 14th class will get to MSP. Got within 4 people the last award and there are 10 spots on the next vacancy. The majority of people from the Jan. 14th class haven't even hit the line yet.

900 hiring is getting close to being finished so if you got hired today and started class in two weeks, you would be close to the most junior person on the 900 and have to wait a while for msp, for those who are on the line now, msp may not be so long, but again, if you are yet to be hired, msp will be w hile

Parking DC9s at the end of the summer is old news. They're currently reevaluating the fleet plan which could include parking more of them sooner. The current plan is to operate 68 of them. The ones they're parking are the oldest -30s which seat 100 seats. The ones they're keeping are the -40s and -50s at 110 and 125 seats respectively. The 900s and 175s were not acquired to be direct DC9 replacements. One could say the 900s were acquired to replace the Avros Mesaba flew. The bottom line is that 72, 76 seat jets are not going to replace a 100+ strong fleet of 100-125 seat a/c. NWA is currently evaluating a 100 seat replacement a/c, which is most likely the EMB195 or Cseries from BBd.

Having said all that... I wouldn't be surprised if NWA took options on the 175, 900 or both. However, the NWA current scope only allows for 90, 76 seaters to be operated meaning NWA could only bring on 18 more 76 seat a/c.

THe fleet plan for XJ is to operate 17 200s, 36 900s and 49 saabs. With that we'll need somewhere in the neighborhood of about 1100-1200 pilots. With our current seniority list about 1050 and classes filled through June, it's very likely hiring for the growth will end at the end of the summer. Hiring will however, likely continue to backfill for folks leaving for greener pastures, assuming that happens. If you got hired now, honestly, you'd be on the bottom of the list. Not a comfortable place to be when you enter a period of uncertainty. I wouldn't make a lateral move at this point. However, if you MUST get back to MSP, Mesaba is probably the best option.

You know what they say when you assume...

There has been no talk of additional aircraft. IF NWA were to purchase additional regional jets, they could just as easily buy EMB-175s for Compass, or place additional CRJ900's with another carrier. There is absolutely no reason to assume Mesaba will get any additional aircraft, as least in the near future.

Not to mention if there are any furloughs at NWA due to aircraft retirements, they flowback to Mesaba and Compass. (I believe this is correct anyway).

The amount of flowback to Mesaba will equal the amount of flow up. If they furloughed today, less than a couple would get to flow back. Not a big deal. Compass had they had a chance to flow, would be under a different flowback set of rules, far less favorable than our flowback at XJ. This is of course NWA indeed furloughs. No talk of the F word overthere yet.

agreed. With the flow-back clause mesaba guys will not get hosed. As many that have gone up can come down which isnt very many.
And once again....agreed the bottom of any seniority list over this summer and over the next year or so is scary. Im thanking god ive acquired some decent seniority thanks to the hiring boom. Im not necessarily safe though, none of us are i guess.

Personally I got heired on the 27th of Feb... and am still waiting for a class date.... so whatever that means

That all depends on how many NWA furloughs. If 10 Mesaba guys go up that is 10 spots open to flow down. If NWA furloughs 100 then those 10 Mesaba guys are out of luck.

yeah basically what i said. I was more or less referring to the bottom of the seniority list. Such as if there was no flow back restriction and a bunch of NWA guys came back a ton of XJ people would be out of a job. But yeah basically what i said.

Yup, and I am with you--glad that I have some seniority to weather the bad times if they come around again.

If a NWA furlough happened at this point or anytime between now and summer there would likely not be any furloughs at Mesaba. All XJ would do is cancel classes and put people into a pool. We're still hiring for our "growth" and if there is somehow a need for less pilots, they have options before furloughing. Furloughs will likely happen if we find ourselves in a situation with no hiring, no growth and very little movement - like the last times we've furloughed. I wouldn't worry about anything quite yet.

Regarding flowbacks... the flowbacks may not necessarily be former XJ pilots. Or even further, there may not be anyone that wants to flowback. Look at Compass... they were created for NWA pilot job protection and very few of NWAs furloughs took the job at Compass.

Job protection for nwa pilots. wow. you do remember why compass was created right?

Uh yes... Compass was created by NWA/ALPA to provide furlough protection for NWA pilots. Initially "newco" was an idea by NWA mgmt to probably squeeze the pilots, but it evolved into what we know as Compass today. The ironic thing is that very few NWA furloughs even went to Compass. Let me rephrase it for you... Compass is a safety net for NWA pilots should there be a furlough at NWA. Why do you think the Compass flowthrough has a BUMP AND FLUSH flowback provision.

There is nothing Compass is doing for NWA that Mesaba or Pinnacle couldn't do. There is no need for another Airlink carrier, except to provide NWA pilots with job protection. NWA pilots allowed Compass to be created and come to fruition.

What's your definition of Compass?

here, i will give you the wikipedia answer, since it is 100% correct. Compass was nwa's managements way of getting around alpa and the pilots. to think any different is to have drank to much of the good ole nwa koolaid

Compass was formed due to a contract dispute between Northwest and its pilots union, the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA), due to a "scope clause" in the Northwest pilot contract which is intended to protect pilot jobs and pay. This clause limited the type of mid-sized jets available to the airline, and seat capacity of those jets. Northwest is thus forced to pay its pilots existing pay in its contract and not create a separate pay scale for smaller jet aircraft.
In order to avert this problem, Northwest bought the operating certificate of bankrupt Independence Air on March 10, 2006, for $2 million to establish a new feeder airline and new pay rates. During the concept phase, the subsidiary was known as "NewCo". Compass' operations are limited to flying 76-seat aircraft or less, due to the language in the scope clause.


i can tell you right now there is nothing in these paragraphs that is incorrect. compass was the companies way of working around the union and its pilots. infact i can tell you right now that i remember when compas was first created it didn't scare pinnacle pilots or mesaba pilots. it scared the main line pilots.

Ok, you're right. You know everything and certainly everything in wikipedia is never flawed. Once again you miss the point every time dude. If you reread what I wrote, I said acknowledged that in the beginning Compass was created to squeeze the NWA pilots. It did however evolve into a compromise between mgmt and mainline to create a safety-net for NWA pilots.

Once again... Yup, the very initial concept of Compass was to screw the pilots... but in the end, the NWA pilots embraced this Compass idea for their own benefit. To think anything other than that well... you're just misinformed.

What kind of competitive mins are they hiring at right now??

another alter ego airline

So now it just scares the pinnacle pilots? :confused:

exactly. there to put the squeeze on the northwest pilots. and if anyone thinks otherwise, they are misinformed.

compass doesn't scare pinnacle pilots. they do the flying that the rj shouldn't be doing in the first place. for example they are now doing our mem-bos flights. no way a 200 should be doing that flying. so as they took that flight from us they gave us different cities. we have gotten several new destinations from nwa as they have put larger planes on the routes that need it. not to many people are worried about compass here at 9e.

Wow there's LOTS of "misinformed" people then.

The NWA pilot group voted FOR CP. Granted the junior (-9/320) guys feel "sold-out" by the senior (744/330) guys, but in any case at least the majority of the whole group voted FOR it. So what, they "put the squeeze" on themselves?!

Heck I've got a mainline 320 buddy who actually encouraged me to come here. Yea he's in a big (BIG) minority, but there are some NW guys who don't despise CP.

I meant that facetiously... :p

But then again since you brought it up, maybe 9E should be worried? You don't exactly have the most spectacular on-time-figures/customer relations/labor relations/etc/etc and I'm sure NW isn't excited about that, especially when they own two growing regionals themselves. So yea, I wouldn't want CP or XJ to do well either then...

But Matlok - Airsupport knows everything. He's been at Pinnacle for 2.5 years and is willing to school everyone on all matters. He got his info from Wikipedia, the go to place for 100% accurate information. How dare anyone question him! TIC :rolleyes:

only reason i said that is bc Ive heard it from plenty of other people...and the facts seem to back it up... that compass is in an alter ego....... (i wouldnt dare say scab you all might bite my heads off)

Let's put it this way, I wouldn't be my career on it.

If it makes you feel better, Paok, you and your buddies can call them whatever you want. But lets get the story straight; the fact is that Compass is an ALPA sanctioned air carrier created with a majority vote by NW pilots. Compass is in no way an alter ego airline the same as Compass pilots are NOT scabs. It might be worthwhile for you to educate yourself on the subject before you repeatedly make such claims?

what would anyone say the upgrade time for the -900 is considering the new additions to the fleet? Or is it too early to tell?

When talking upgrades, no matter the airline, no matter the aircraft, you are almost better off flipping a coin than asking how long the upgrade time is.:rolleyes:

One thing worth considering when asking oneself what NWA ALPA thinks of Compass Airlines: Compass pilots are REPRESENTED by NWA ALPA! Their contract is negotiated by NWA ALPA. So they are absolutely not scabs, nor anything like it.

Here is what I want to know about Compass. Why do people want to go there? Many people say to get into NW. Northwest is... well was and still may be hiring, why go to another regional... which it seems to be a second regional for many of them? Any good reasons?

Can't say why for anyone but myself... for me, it was because CP offered better QOL, better pay, much faster upgrade, and could move me back close to home. Plus if I was furloughed due to a NW/DL merger, I'd at least have gained my ATP with a E170/190 PIC type.

Yep... too many factors. One of the main ones I'm looking at is the release of Saab CA seat locks. If they're released, you stand a lesser chance of upgrading in the 900 since so many SF3 captains will be getting out of the Saab early and going to the CR9. If the locks are put back in place, not as many Saab guys will be able to move over to the CR9, and FOs currently on the CR9 will have a better chance of upgrading in the equipment they already know.

Saab seat locks will likely continue to be lifted as long as they want to get the saab properly staffed. I wouldn't hold my breath too long if you were a new hire waiting for the jets. The few that got it were completely lucky and had perfect timing, definitely not a normal circumstance. There will come a time though, where the folks that want to go to the jets from the saab will dry up. Not everyone wants to fly the 900 or 200. Depending on your saab seniority and pay, you could end up taking a pay cut to fly the jet if you were to sit reserve! Not to mention quality of life. So, when all the folks wanting to go to the jet go, then upgrades to the jet may go junior again.