If your were Pinnacle MGMT, what would you do with COLGAN?
 

Hey guys, just an idea that has been going around my head. What is PNCL going to do with Colgan? All I hear is that Colgan is only costing money to PNCL CORP. and that PNCL airlines is carrying the weight. Second question, what would you do with Colgan if you were uncle PHIL?
Personally I think I would defenetly get rid of the 1900s and start phasing out the Saabs. I would also close some bases and start working my way towards and all Q400 operator. Bad thing is that 400s cost a lot of money, and the Saabs are really cheap but not money makers. Still though, I think large modern turpoprops are the answer to fuel costs.
I'm just writting this because I'm bored, and would like to hear some ideas just for fun. I don't want to start a bashing thread, if you wan't to bash, I couldn't care less......but at least try to sound intelligent.

The SAABs make money hand over fist, you have been misinformed.
Secondly why would they put a Q400 on an EAS route that normally sees maybe 40-50% load factors on a SAAB?

Well if the Saabs make money what is the problem with Colgan? I don't have numbers obviously, and when you say that the Saabs make money maybe you could share some numbers or facts. What I'm trying to say is that there's somthing not working right in Colgan and maybe the fleet structure is one of the biggest problem.

One thing they are doing is dropping the EAS flying, so they can rebid it and get paid more. Hopefully someone else undercuts them...doubtful though.

they sure aren't losing money by paying the crews well

I'll drink to that!

mismanagement is a problem at culligan, but not the biggest culprit. PCL is fee for departure, colgan isn't except for the q400 operation. Colgan takes home all of the ticket revenue for the seats it sells, but it also incurs all the costs like fuel, ticket sales etc. EAS and the airways flying are kicking our butts right now. Colgan is eating the cost on the fuel, and that why they are rebidding the EAS contracts. Our airways contract is up in Nov 08 i believe. Expect to see some changes there. Repos, crew movements, fuel, all that adds up. Colgan always operated on a small margin to begin with. read the last 10Q page 35:

http://library.corporate-ir.net/libr...267970/10Q.pdf

if you read page 36 it also says that pcl pilots are paid below industry wage and it's of the utmost importance for pcl to reach an agreement with alpa, lol. I can't believe the SEC lets them file some of this stuff

The saabs only had a 2-3% profit margin BEFORE the recent gas prices at 100$ a barrel. Well below industry average. Most regionals get a about a 5% profit margin. The Q's a 5-7% profit margin depending on completion, ontime etc.....

I can see some Saabs going bye bye, a while before all of them go...

The Saab at Colgan only had a 2-3% profit margin BEFORE the recent $100 a barrel oil. The regional airline norm is about 5%. The Q400 is about a 5-7% depending on bonus incentives (fuel saving, completion, ontime etc).

I see a reduction in Saabs starting at the end of this year unless oil goes below $70 (dobtful).

If I were PNCL I would merge the companies for synergy, stop flying for Saabs at Airways, beef up United and CAL and give the pilots a contract.

transfer the fleet to pinnacle starting with the q 400s

If eye were Pinnalce MGMT, eye wood sail Colgan immediately. The Saabs are knot monee makers. Give awl the Q400s to Pinnalce and let they're pilots fly them.

:p

Maybe you could negotiate a better labor contract/salary for the Q400 also, since Pinnacle Pilots have done such a stellar job negotiating their own labor contract/salary on the CRJ.

Show us Colganites how its done, You can Have the Q400 and the crappy pay that goes with it!

Alright! Another 300hr Colgan guy telling people how things should be! Sure we'll take the Q and sell the rest of that dump off, then that will free up enough time for you to go out and get your CFI.

Nope, not even close.
Actually I'm one of the few people who refused to fly the Q400 for 50 Seat RJ pay.
You can thank the other Colganite ALPA Unionizing Committee Members who folded like a lawn chair less than a week after it got voted down. Those members are now all in line to fly the Q400.
It's no wonder your Pinnacle Management bought Colgan.

I doubt it's any consolation, but their are a few pilots here with a spine. (Not at Many as I Thought, But a Few)

Who folded like lawnchairs? What were they supposed to do? the attempt lost, and the pilots can't go to the NMB for a year. What does flying the Q400 have to do with being a supporter of the union? I think the Q400 is going to be ALPAs best friend, everyone who flies it is going to be begging for a union soon enough if not already.

Well coming from this 4500 hr Saab pilot I would say that PNCL should transfer all the RJ's to Colgan and let those pilots fly them. Ha Ha Ha :) I couldn't resist for the dumb $hits that always say that. "give us your airplanes, spacificaly the 400, and get lost" But on a more serious note, there were roomers of trying to change to an all Q fleet (IE 200, 300, & 400) This would be very very costly though and I dont think the new step dad would be quite up for that yet. There are plans to phase out the remaining 4 1900's by the end of the year. And one question, if Colgan is loosing that much money then why did we get bought? Riddle me that!

One word.... WHIPSAW

Chatting with the tug driver in EWR this morning.... with a sigh he mentioned how Colgan is continuously delayed out of EWR every day. He is a EWR veteran and remarked at how disorganized things are. Daily mx delays, etc.

It's nice to see that XJT continues to lead CAL regional feed in on time performance, maintenance, and stuff. Not bragging or flaming... just noticing on how a couple extra dollars does go a long way.

At least XJT is pulling in some extra revenue while carrying Culligan due to the inability to get more of the Qs on the line on schedule. Flying lots of Colgan routes in the next couple weeks to cover for CAL.

What should Pinnacle do with Colgan? Get rid of the whipsaw, and perhaps give the jobs to the pilots that earned the money to pay for the aircraft!?

so pncl management could say to hell with their contract and start an alter ego carrier that already had a certificate.

The maturity of some of you amazes me. This is the reason why this forum and especially the Regional section had hit all time lows. Too much "my regional is better." I have had my immature post wars in the past but it is old, way old.

N2, I am sorry but your attitude is a joke. You sound like a bitter child in all your posts. Saab had good points at times and has halted his Colgan bashing but you just go on and on. You only fuel to the Colgan vs XJet feelings out there...grow up. Oh and I know "I am a joke and a loser" cause I work for a "bottom feeder"...ok whatever.

When is this forum going to grow up.

Perhaps the mods need to do a better job to clean up the maturity on this forum. They talk a good game about "infractions" but same old people talking the same old junk.

"Perhaps the mods need to do a better job to clean up the maturity on this forum."

I'm all over this forum. I can only respond to TOS violations. I don't see immaturity really mentioned in the TOS. Feel free to report posts that violate TOS. If you'd like the admins to add an "immature" infraction, I'd be all for it. Send HSLD a PM.

"They talk a good game about "infractions" but same old people talking the same old junk"

As long as said "junk" doesn't violate TOS, the mods won't touch it. You can either post your opinion, not post, or find another site you like better. Many options for you....

They said the same things about the Houston operation when it started. It all got fixed and three years later Continental appears to be happy with the results. The same will happen in Sewark. Since some of the XJT flying was re-slotted to CHQ, can we assume Continental wasn't happy with the product cost? By the way, PCL pilots don't want to fly turboprops. Let's not kid ourselves. I can assume what they do want and deserve is a good contract and more money.

Product cost = paying pilots more to do a better job? XJT is a tight ship operationally, and the only reason we'd cost more is because of our crew payscales and work rules. If you think thats a bad thing, I sure do appreciate your efforts towards improving our profession. :confused:

When CAL cancels a CHQ flight, CHQ doesn't have to pay their crew because I understand they don't have cancellation pay. Not sure why weather should influence an employee's paycheck. XJT pilots are pay protected, and if that costs more, so be it. That's the way it should be.

Is Colgan pay protected for cancellations? Are Colgan pilots compensated appropriately for flying a heavier aircraft that produces more revenue for CAL? Are CHQ/RJET 70 seat pilots paid more than XJT pilots for flying larger aircraft?

These are the questions we all have to think about when we are undercutting each other. We're all pilots but you have to see that there's nothing good about folks wanting to fly larger and larger aircraft for less and less. That's my gripe with companies that undercut XJT. If it didn't effect my job security then I wouldn't care what Colgan dudes make.

Colgan
 

Even though the Saabs and other turboprops are great on gas and therefore as asset to have, Colgan has been struggling with the money issues well before the takeover. From what I understand is that the Q400 was the saving grace for a company with over 8 million in debt at the time of the takeover. If not for Pinnacle, Colgan would have folded by now. I no longer work there, but from what I here from some of my management friends, Buddy and his people have been rebuilding a very sunken ship. I am curious as to how Colgan pulls through with the fuel price increaes etc.. The way they are going, they will probably be a larger, more dominant and more proffitable company in the next few years.

yes we are, and this whole thing about it being the pilots fault for us flying more routes for CAL because we get paid less is BS. I really dont think in the big picture a couple of dollars per flight hour for the crew really makes a difference compared to the huge amount for fuel, aircraft, mx etc etc...

I think you are preaching to the choir. Who doesn't want to have excellent benefits and get paid well to do their job? However, Continental doesn't care about your benefits and how much you, the mechanics or gate agents are paid. They don't care if you get cancellation pay either. A lot of what they (bean counters) care about is how much it costs to get people from A to B. XJT has a great product and nobody could ever argue against that. But apparently CAL thinks it costs too much. Delta thinks the cost is fine, since XJT picked up some Delta flying. This is the beauty of a free market economy. I fly the Saab and I won't go fly the Q400 for that terrible pay. But Colgan is having no problems filling the seats with street captains and "no union" voters.