wow................:o


Its funny, EVERYONE should hope to GOD that EXPRESSJET doesn't go under, make no mistake about IT WE LEAD the regional world in contract & QOL, thats not an opinion either, We go out their will be little to "strive" for come contract time

Bottom line, XJ aside, or any company that currently operates 50-Seat RJs should be extremely weary in this day in age. No pilots wants to see his/her fellow pilots out on the street, especially the way airline consolidation and overall industry changes are occurring. But the majors need to cut the fat, and the regionals are a place to cut a lot of that fat.

At the end of the day, all the flying done at the regional level is dictated by what the majors decide. The majors can click there fingers and shut down a regional company just like that, look at the kick Mesa just took by Delta.

Flight frequency at the regional will go down, and mainline flying will grow. That is the reality of where this industry is going.

Funny though, thats exactly what it is.

I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree entirely.

Given the efficiencies required for a regional to make money, it wouldn't surprise me if the cost to carry a passenger on the RJ is the same or lower than on mainline.

It's often discussed that RJs are less fuel efficient and thus more costly to operate on a per-seat basis. I do not contest this. What often isn't considered is other operational efficiencies that regionals specialize in: quick turns, fleet commonality, and a high rate of aircraft utilization.

Mainlines are much better at making money on longer-haul legs. Until such time that more mainline carriers are able to operate shorter legs with greater cost effectiveness (ala Southwest), I see their growth in international and longer domestic routes. Regional flying may take a hit in the near future, but mostly due to a current overcapacity in the domestic system.

the sooner this "my airline is better than yours" crap ends..the better off we'll all be

CONTRACTS MEAN NOTHING IF THE PILOTS VOTE TO CUT IT DOWN. And they will if the company has them running scared about the companys financial future.

(Note the AAL Q1 loss thread)

Comair. #2 example.

how many concessions have they taken, and freezes in the past 3 years and how much growth has happened?

Comair had the best contract ever given to a regional pilot group, and it's a shadow of what it was.

I'm not saying that the regional jet days are numbered, but I believe we will see a combination of two things:
1.) Resurgence of turboprops on medium-short haul doemstic routes (less 400nm
2.) Larger capacity domestic regional jets (80-100 seats)

This bickering back and forth about which regional is better and has the best contract is silly and immature. It's a business, and comapanies need to operate in a matter that will keep them in business, so that ALL employees can benefit and still have a place to work. You can have the best labor contract in all the world, but if your company goes out of business what good will it be?

What are you going to do with the best contract and QOL when the company goes under? I don't see the branded make it pass this summer.

Go to your MEC and ask them who's contract they're going to use at their next negotiation.

You wouldn't retain Longevity and medical and travel benefits in a furlough.

By the way, the length of the COLA gives you an insight into the likelihood of furlough, NOT the COLA itself. The break-even point financially on a furlough is 9 months. Less than 9 months, the company actually loses money by furloughing...which means had they offered 6-9 month COLA's, then ya, start worrying. They didn't, so we're not.

What costs does the company incur to furlough a pilot?

I'm actually surprised they did a 3month and didn't just do a 1 or two month rotation. 3 months could leave several out of 121 experience req. meaning they'd have to go back to the sim.

Do you know how long COLAs were offered at Chautauqua in the winter of 2005?

QOL!?!? didnt you start a thread about how tired you are......??

If you only had a clue sometimes. Are you even off probation yet?

Spooling up the training department to full strength (assuming most of the furloughees are recalled withing a short time).

I don't think very many went for the whole 3 months, in order to avoid the sim. Most guys took 2.

Yes. That has what to do with XJT? Absolutely nothing. Thanks for asking though.

When their month or two is up are they guaranteed a spot back and the company will replace them with someone else if no one chooses? They did this last time for a friend of mine.

My point was you still don't get a paycheck. I don't care how you slice it not getting paid is not getting paid. A furloughed pilot maintains his seniority and can still maintain his seniority accrual. So if you were a 3yr FO when furloughed and are gone for a year then when you come back you could be paid at 4th year status. Sorry to break it to you. It depends on the conditions established when the furloughs happen. You should know this, but I'm not surprised. True you don't keep your travel benefits. I don't see many people traveling the world over with no paycheck esp. when they've only had regional pay to build up their nestegg on. So yea. What's the diff?

April 17, 2008


EMPLOYEE BULLETIN NO. 5



CO issued the following news release today.



CONTINENTAL AIRLINES ANNOUNCES FIRST QUARTER NET LOSS


Record fuel prices lead to quarterly loss; Continental to shrink domestic mainline capacity 5.0 percent on an annual run-rate basis; company to retire 14 additional mainline aircraft; Continental redeems Northwest’s Golden Share



HOUSTON, April 17, 2008 – Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL ) today reported a first quarter 2008 net loss of $80 million ($0.81 diluted loss per share). Excluding a $5 million after tax gain from the sale of aircraft, Continental recorded a net loss of $85 million ($0.86 diluted loss per share).

Fuel costs increased 53.2 percent ($364 million) in the first quarter compared to the first quarter of last year, with crude oil prices peaking at $110.33 per barrel and Gulf Coast jet fuel peaking at $139.67 per barrel during the quarter. Further, during the quarter, the company incurred additional fuel costs of $69 million year-over-year that were included as part of its regional capacity purchase cost. As a result, the total year-over-year impact of higher fuel costs on the company for the first quarter was $433 million.

Continental plans to remove from service an additional 14 older, less fuel efficient 737-300 aircraft as leases expire on those aircraft from September 2008 to April 2009. These 14 737-300s are in addition to the 34 737-300s and 500s that were already planned to be removed from service in 2008 and 2009.

Continental also expects to reduce regional jet capacity beginning in the fall 2008; however, its plans are fluid as it is attempting to negotiate better economics with ExpressJet, and as the CRJs flown for Continental by Chautauqua come off lease.



This can't be good for Express.

This loss is exactly what isn't needed. Hard to get paycuts back with money going out and hard to keep arguing scope when other airlines are flying larger more efficient jets. CAL had a short contract with us on our CRJs so by not renewing that flying they could cut a decent amount right there.

No...un-voluntary COLA wouldn't be a COLA, it would be furlough.

This is not to say that we are safe beyond this summer...this merger stuff is going to do some unpredictable things to all regionals.

Again, for someone who supposedly knows a lot about everything, you don't know the difference between seniority and longevity.

Tell that to my first year ONT FO buddy who's doing precisely that. Not everyone's first job was as a regional FO or broke CFI. Other people I know have decided to take the COLAs to go pursue other interests other than being a regional FO and help build that nestegg.

Seriously ToiletDuck, stop talking about things you obviously don't know a thing about. It's getting very old.

Nope, not good news for us or Chautauqua. Then a merger and who knows. Only thing they can do is reduce block hours. They can't take away any jets until December 2009, per the current CPA...unless a new CPA is negotiated or a merger puts a wrecking ball in to everything.

It depends on the CBA. Ask a pilot furloughed from UAL in 2001 what his pay rate was when he was recalled in 2007. Do you think he went to 6th year pay rate?

Conversely, ask a furloughed DAL pilot what pay rate he went to when recalled. That is assuming he didn't bypass due to language in the DAL CBA.

Sorry to break it to YOU, YOU should know this, but I'm not surprised you don't.

For somebody like you and your lack of airline pilot experience to lecture me on the ins and outs of furloughs is pretty laughable.

Let's cut out the petty sarcasim that does nothing but bring the thread down. It's a step away from flamebait.

Directed at no one in particular. Just hate to see this thread go downhill.

You can bash all you want Toilet, I'm not even there and it makes me sick to read your obnoxious posts bashing XJT (directly or indirectly). With all these mergers happening, I'm glad I'm not towards the bottom of any seniority list.

Oh, and congratulations on establishing yourself as a hater on this forum. Your credibility as far as I'm concerned is gone. Flame on.

Ask an AA pilot being recalled where his pay rate went. Just like I sated before it depends on what's negotiated for the furlough. You can take what cheap shots you think you can take but I'm not wrong.

Will this thread make it to page 8.......Or will it burn like a firecracker on the 4th of July????

:o

..................

Show me a single post where I've ever bashed the company or those that work there. Someone pointing out a COLA at Chautuaqua has nothing to do with a COLA at XJT. It's plain and simple. Different situations exists for each. I've never hated on the company or the pilot group ever. This is a public forum where we're talking about the financial health of a company is a perfectly acceptable topic and one I didn't start. Once it's out there it's out there for public opinion. In the past week or so I've seen post on Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, Mesa, ATA, Skybus, Aloha, Champion, Skyway, Midwest, RAH, UPS and SWA's financial health. The only ones who can't seem to come to terms with what's going on are the few who've been posting here.

Several are saying "Things are looking up" or "Our March numbers are better" or "We've hedged our fuel" but what I see is declining market share, operating in the red, COLAs, dwindling stock, and mainlines acknowledging they plan on cutting more regional flying. The place might be the best current regional to work at and I'll give it that. But it's financial health isn't looking too good. Come down off the cross and stop mixing the kool-aid trying to get the rest of us to drink it.

From the first post about XJT starting branded flying of "We aren't Indy air" to "If any management can do it ours can", "Oh it's operating startup cost", "we're looking to spread to new markets", "it takes time for brand recognition", and "oil is rising" it's all be said. I don't think anyone here has said any of the statements people are making are wrong. Yes fuel cost have something to do with it. Yes start-up cost will always hit someone. All true statements but no matter how you slice it the company is losing money. Some of your post look like the frog in the pot.

Thank you for proving my point. It DEPENDS on the CBA. In the case of an XJT pilot being gone for a year, he wouldn't have accrued that longevity pay rate. Furloughed right at year 3, recalled at year 4, STILL comes back at year 3 rate.

Maybe CHQ has a different provision in their contract when it comes to furloughs. And kudos for them if a furloughed pilot accrues pay on furlough. Based on YOUR original post regarding being gone for a year, you can decide whether or not you are wrong.

So your point was backing my original statement? I'm confused now. You went from saying I was wrong and doing your best to insult to taking my words, reconfiguring them a little, then putting them back out as your own.

Based on my original post did you read it? Did you see it says it depends on what is negotiated? You've apparently agreed to that so taking a low blow to me for typing it then turning around and supporting it is confusing.

Then you say "If only I had a clue" then respond with

Hrmmmmmm. I'm wondering what your point was. I never said I knew what XJTs furlough agreement was. All I said is what's so different between your COLA and a furlough. I event put a "?" mark by it indicating it was a question. So before you go off on some random tangent where you work your way off to a different topic why not just answer the question? How is your COLA different than a furlough? Benefits and apparently you don't get accrual. Question answered. Some offer accrual like AA so it was a reasonable question. So sensitive.

Here is the original statement I'm talking about;

Sorry, but the statement is WRONG. A furloughed pilot under XJT's CBA does not accrue pay longevity. A furloughed pilot does NOT maintain his pay status. Sorry, I don't know of any other way to tell you that YOUR original statement was incorrect.

The first part says a pilot accrues pay longevity, the second part says it depends on the "conditions established when the furloughs happen". Further adding confusion to what you THINK you are talking about. Also, pay longevity depends; did the union negotiate an LOA to change the furlough language? Or, are the pilots being furloughed and subject to contractual language that what written YEARS before their furlough?

What statement are you reading? I never said anything about a furloughed pilot under XJT's CBA. Not once. Someone said "We keep our longevity pay" so I asked how that was different from a furlough. A simple "We don't get longevity pay according to our CBA in the event of a furlough" would have answered it. I didn't say an XJT pilot keeps longevity. I said a pilot in furlough CAN still maintain his seniority accrual and it it depends on the conditions established. Which is why I asked what the difference was. I didn't make any incorrect statements. You read incorrectly, or perhaps too quickly, so that you could see what you wanted to see then jump on and try a quick insult as you always seem to do. Do you see me doing whatever I can to call you out time and time again? Nope. It's called staying civil. You've been called out on it before by others as well. Why do it? It isn't healthy that's the first place you go to. Even if you thought I was wrong about something you could still act like an adult about it. When you fire off so fast like this it makes you seem extremely sensitive about your job. If you are then I'd advise not to get on a public forum where people talk about it a lot. You don't see people from other airlines carrying on in this manner. You and tpersuit need to take stress management courses or sensitivity training or something. We're here to walk around eggshells around you guys just waiting for you to go flying off the handle at someone.

Trying to explain it anymore is like clapping with one hand.

See Toilet, you seem to be coming of as a flamebait. You state no actual facts to say why XJT is going down, and indirectly insult XJT at every turn.

You ignore the fact we hedged fuel and that our March Load Factor numbers were 73%. I'm guessing we'd be better if we had not hedged? Give me actual facts that we are not financially sound.

Actual airplanes of RAH have been pulled from CAL, that is a fact. Where has actual airplanes been pulled for XJT?

As for XJT not being Indy, that is fact. Indy was operating all by itself and against United. Look at XJT's Branded system. We don't compete against the big guys and its less than 20% of our operation. If I had to start up my own company I would rather have another profitable operation helping it along.

Wat Ev holmes. Talk to the hand.

Newark, NJ

Ok since you asked for it, but just this one last time.
1. http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/2y/x/xjt

2. They are offering COLAs

3.http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ucky/xjt-1.jpg

4. CAL is looking to drop XJT's ground operations for another client.


So you know the () around numbers on the financial sheets mean negative.

Besides the first 69? Any feeder for CAL can expect a drop in business. Hours will be cut. Once CHQs contract on the CRJs is up, which isn't too far away, it's possible there will be no renewed contract with them. Four are already gone. The 145s still have several years to go. I've never said XJT is going down and don't expect them to. There are several places they can still cut fat. Managements know how to survive.