Although there are some companies that have waviers from the FAA for pilots that don't meet the ATP mins...meaning PIC time. They just have to do a little more OE...thats all

The part 61 mins for the ICAO ATP will give you .5 hours towards the PIC requirement for every hour of SIC so, if you got hired on with a bunch of SIC time (I was flying right seat in turboprops before I came to SKW) then you will invariably meet the "PIC" requirement. 2000 hours of SIC = 1000 hours PIC for the ICAO ATP requirement purposes

The "Company Flight Time or Equivalent" means multi-engine, crew, turbine time. 121/135/91/military is all good, but you need the crew time.

Actually I'm not 100% certain the crew time has to be multi-engine, but it does need to be turbine.

You have a source for this? and last I checked we are governed by the FAA not ICAO. I see nothing in the FARS that support this.

I've posted this section at least a couple times on these boards.

In fact, I think I may quote this section more than any other source I have to post on these forums. It seems there are quite a few of you who do not keep up with reading your FARs. You never know what useless facts you might come up with. That is, useless until you have a Fed on your jumpseat hassle you and you remember an obscure regulation exonerating your. Then, those little things become quite useful.

EDIT: Oh, and actually, in many ways, you ARE governed by ICAO. Other than the fact that the FAA is governed by ICAO, AE, as an international carrier, must submit to the sometimes stricter regulations of ICAO. For instance, in their CA minimums of 1200 hours of TT.

FAR 61.159.a.4

(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof

The ONLY time you would be doing this is in 121 is on IOE after your Captain sim check ride. At no time while your an FO are you performing the duties of PIC under the supervision of a PIC. This is known as Supervised Pilot in Commmand. SOme get SPIC during their commercial-multi rating during their required cross country flights but flying SIC in 121 your are not. In order to get the sim check-ride for captain and your temporary airmen certificate you must qualify for it. IE you have to have the 250 hrs PIC or "SPIC" already. Yes ICAO has some say in things, obviously, but on your airmen certificate no where does it say ICAO it says FAA Airmen Certificate.

FAR 61.159.d

(d) An applicant may be issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the endorsement, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed by Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant:
(1) Credits second-in-command or flight-engineer time under paragraph (c) of this section toward the 1,500 hours total flight time requirement of paragraph (a) of this section;
(2) Does not have at least 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot, including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command time and none of his or her flight-engineer time; and
(3) Otherwise meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.
(e) When the applicant specified in paragraph (d) of this section presents satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command flight time and none of his or her flight-engineer time, the applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the endorsement prescribed in that paragraph.


This. to me is realy talking about the total time. This is only saying that TOTAL TIME as Enineer or FO will count towards the TOTAL TIME REQUIRMENT towards your ATP. obviously someone who has been an FO for years will meet the TOTAL TIME Requirment.

and a more valid question would be; do some airlines allow this ATP certificate to be issued to their captains in the United States? I've talked to a few check airmen at Eagle and they all say they do not. The applicant must meet the FAA part 61 requirments for a NORMAL ATP before they can take their captain check ride.

this is all very interesting, and it certainly was a good refresher on the regs, but skywest doesn't hire 250 hour people. we have kept our mins at 1000/100 for the most part. so it's sort of moot.

He was correct. We are governed by the FAA for domestic flying, but for international we must also comply with ICAO rules.

If you get a US ATP and do not meet ICAO ATP mins, there will be a restriction on your ticket. You can get it removed once you acquire enough PIC in domestic flying.

Many mesa academy grads fell into this trap...some had to rent airplanes to get the required ICAO "hard" PIC before they could upgrade.

This is what I was trying to say about 250 hr pilots wanting to upgrade. Thanx.