Building Multi Time for Regionals
 

I am sure I am not the only one just short of the multi mins for applying at the regionals. Opportunities to get those hours seem difficult to come by. I already lost my chance at AE looking for an opportunity to build multi time. Had the conditional letter but now the hiring halted. I am looking for someone serious about splitting multi engine time building in Pa. or surrounding area. I have located an opportunity in Chester County Pa. in a Piper Seminole at 180/hr wet. I am from Dutchess County NY area I would like to find another pilot looking to split time with me asap. I have already had a few possibles but no one ready to commit. I would like to build at least 25 hours asap and go from there. If seriously interested PM with a phone number where I can get in touch with you.

If I were you I'd use the money to get my MEI and teach. 25 hours won't cut it nowadays, especially if some people who have lots more than 25 hours are out there without a job or about to get furloughed.

I agree. Either that or join the successor to the Nintendo generation and buy your time in a bridge program.

The hiring window is slamming shut very rapidly. Unless you have a strong lead on a regional job, it may be wiser as suggested to invest in an MEI, and start building buku time for the next hiring wave whenever it comes, because minimums will be a lot higher then.

go to med school

Are your eyes open right now? The airline industry is in BIG trouble!! I was watching NBC nightly news and they did a piece on the airlines. Not only are some going out of business, they have already said (The Majors) that there regional networks are going to take the brunt of this and that there will be thousands of layoffs. Some majors have said they may be about to revist bankrupy if things don't turn around soon, one has said they would just liquidate, since there is nothing more to give. This oil crap is spreading worldwide, with airlines overseas going T.U.

When and if this ever gets straighten out is anyones' guess. For now, you may want to teach, or go into something all togheter, like a goverment job, new deal and great deppression II, here we come!!

I agree, but if a lot of pilots leave this industry, look out for the CMI wonder with 250 hrs.

Stay in this industry/ leave this industry... Whatever but dont waste your money buying multi time. Sadly, if you havent already realized it, you missed your window. WELCOME TO AVIATION! Your now gonna try to compete with people with thousands of hours of jet time and having a few more multi hours is not going to help. When the indusrty swings around once again your gonna need more that 50 multi hours.

Listen to the guys on this site. Get the MEI and get working at a well established flight school even if you have to move. Make sure they have a multi program and work your way up.

I'll tell ya what I did...Jumped on the time-building band-wagon at Scary-ben er...Ari-Ben in Ft. Pierce, FL...SUPER cheap multi-time building there. Just about 50 into my 100 hours I realized I had made a big mistake, got a refund, and got my CFI/II/MEI at ATP. CFI is good, but you'll be golden with an MEI. It's the way to go. Get yourself your tickets, contract your services to teach foreigners for 40K/yr and ride the wave we call Aviation. When hiring does pick up you'll be good to go. Best of luck!

As stated, if we see lots of furloughs at the regional level...it's going to take more than 1000/100 to get an airline gig again....might take much more. If things turn around, everything will go the opposite way, but that's a guessing game as to when...as of now, things are on the down and down, not many companies are hiring, some are rumoring furlough, getting 50 hrs of light twin time really isn't going to make much of a dent in things. I'd look around for cargo operations, or 135 gigs, or...get your MEI.

Don't buy time. Get paid for time. One job leads to the next. Simple as that. Take the first (safe*) job that will pay you to get that multi time. Be it instructing or charter or whatever. The best pilots I fly with are those who have been there and done that.

* by safe I mean don't compromise yours or anyone else's safety for a job. There are plenty of dangerous jobs out there. And safe one's too. Take the high road and the safe jobs.

Agreed with the posts on here, get that MEI, there are a number of people I know around the regional world that do not even have a CFI...Get paid to build time and not pay for it, with fuel being so high I can't imagine you'll be able to find a very good rate on a twin anyways....

What will happen to all these people if they are still FOs if their company puts them out on the streets.. Oh Geezz they will just go back to Mom and Dad.. I swear I learned so much from Instructing it should be a rite of passage to a regional job and such one should have at least 1000 duel given with at least 40% being Instrument instruction in a Twin..

Ok Rant over

go get mei at atp and work for them... i havent touched a single in months its glorious

Your goal of 25 hours at 180/hr is $4500. That's more than enough for your MEI.

Even if you split the time (which is not that easy to do legally), your looking at $2250. I have no clue how much the ATP program costs, but getting your MEI would be invaluable. There are so many flight schools desperate for instructors. If you look on climbto350.com, you can find flight schools hiring all over the US, and paying well (reasonably) too. $40k/yr to instruct.

Anyway, good luck with whatever ya choose to do! Getting a regional job in the near future will be difficult. And if you choose the instructing route, you will be well qualified for when the hiring picks up again.

a friend of mine instructed at ALLATPS a few years ago and he got like 700hrs of multi time out of that. If your from PA I think they have a location in Trenton, NJ and one in Manassas, VA.
Get the MEI and get paid.

180/hr looks pretty low in this day where AVGAS is $6.00/gal. Make sure you are flying something safe.. and yes, get your MEI.. United just announced that they are getting rid of 737s in their fleet.. So, who are you with 100 ME piston vs. people that have thousands of jet time? .. This is not 2006

I agree.....the MEI should not cost that much, maybe $2500 or so, assuming you have the 15 PIC hours.

thank you every one. I understand every ones point and I have looked at it in detail. The issue is I dont have the 15 PIC for MEI and I am in a decent CFII job (500 dual given 750 tt, not the 250 hour CFI wonder), I know I missed the window I just am looking for some one to split that time with so I might get my MEI. If there is any one interested PM me please. thank you

I'm a big proponent of earning, not buying, flight time.

But for many folks, buying the first 25-100 ME hours might make sense. Insurance is the big problem, and it's getting worse.

It is very hard to find a regular job flying a twin without 100 ME. Most clubs, FBOs, and small schools have the same insurance problem, and not everyone can pack up and move to FL to work at a puppy-mill.

You might be able to beg, borrow, and steal twin time in GA-land but this can take a while, and insurance is still an issue. I have known 2500 hour CFI's with 12 hours ME...that doesn't make sense unless you want to be a career ASEL CFI.

That is grossly simplistic. I never had a CFI ticket, and I won't be going back to mommy and daddy.

Move to vegas and work for a grand canyon tour company! (company that operates 402s) It's one way to learn by making decisions on your own while carrying pax!!!

Tony My attempt at Sarcasm is really lacking...

Some CFI's are the worst airline pilots I have flown with. 1000 hours of day VFR around the pattern doesnt do much in a jet shooting an approach to mins in a blizzard.

Sometimes its a matter of being in the right place at the right time, without having to buy your flight time. Then you wont need a CFI and can have just as good quality, if not better flight time doing things besides instruction.

Before I get accused of CFI bashing, I'm not....just showing another side of the story. There's more than one route to quality flight time, some are just harder/luckier to find than others. But a blanket statement that a CFI should be required for an airline job is a little too far out there..

I agree with your statement. However, it depends on the CFI background really. If a CFI wasn't inhibited by the SOP of a large 141 school then he/she might have taken students into the soup for instrument training. I did this as much as I could, but in FL, it was like chasing rainbows by and large.

You've got to be pretty sharp to fly IMC with a new student, stay on top of everything and teach at the same time.

But, by and large, most instruction, especially in FL is hours and hours of flying the circuit. I did 22 touch and gos one afternoon in one flight back to back preparing a student for solo. Thats more like the kind of flying you get.

AirNet has a paid time building SIC Program, You have a one year contract but it will allow you to gain some valuable experience and then when the airlines settle down you can go out and get hired. O yea lots of multi time building from what I hear.

Honestly, if you want to build some multi time and have fun doing it Cape Air is where it's at....

I see that many of you suggest getting the MEI and getting time that way. Do you have any suggestiong for someone that cant move for family reasons and the nearest multi rental FBO is about a 4 hour drive? Maybe see if they would let me teach when I can make it there? Would they hire someone like that? I would love to move to FL and teach, but I just cant right now in time

Maybe not...
 

But when they upgrade and they now have to watch/teach/mentor the FO now in that position, they'll be better prepared because of the CFI.

Where are piston flyers supposed to become experienced flying faster equipment before going to the airlines?

Last time I check I couldn't get a job instructing an a jet down to minimums in a blizzard.

The learning curve will always be there, except for the "luckier" pilot who can find that golden job, yet there will always be a captain saying what you have said.





OO

You can log PIC and Dual Given while getting your MEI instruction flights. two birds with one stone!

I agree...you need 15 hours PIC for the CHECKRIDE. Maybe just build 10 hours splitting; the actual MEI training is typically 5 hours dual.

Join the military.. with your hours, you'll probably get your choice of airframes right out of flight school. The best flying you will ever see.. the books written about it don't even do it justice. When I tell some of my civ friends what we do.. they just have this blank look on their face like they can't even comprehend what was just said.. Go for it.. you have nothing to lose and everything to gain,, Doesn't matter what you fly or in what branch.. all great stuff.

You're talking about 25 hours in a piston twin when you could be talking about cat shots off the front of a carrier loaded to bare with enough weapons to do some serious population control and landscaping.. or flying a helicopter into the mountains to pickup a downed pilot with your crewmen locked and loaded with miniguns and hellfires. The Navy C-2 COD pilots trap on the carrier all day then party like rock stars in hotels in Hong Kong, Bahrain, HI, and Australia..

Think past leveling off at FL 360 on autopilot and calling KC center to ask about ride reports so some idiot doesn't spill his coke. You can do that after you get your retirement check... Then you can tell this industry to kiss your A$$ and go live on the beach in a hammock.. How's that for a plan B ?

Worked on me...sign me up!

If anyone here seriously considers military flying.. You can't just go to the local recruiting office to sign up. Officers are recruited at the MEP center. That's the main recruiting office for a region. if it's not an officer signing you up.. he's probably lying to you. I've heard stories of guys walking into the local recruiting office at the strip mall and being told they go through basic training as an enlisted and go fly later.. not how it happens.

You go to officer school and then flight school, signed up by an officer to be an officer. If you don't have a four year degree, you can fly helicopters in the Army.. good flying, but the least desirable of the military flying simply because of quality of life. PM me if you have any questions.

There is allot of sacrifice as well. I thought it was worth it. Start a thread here and ask the questions. Lots of former military guys here to give inputs..

You took my statement and turned it into a blanket statement without reading what I was responding to, which was that all regional pilots should be required to have CFI.

reread what I said , and I think you will find that you just repeated my statement. That CFI'ing won't prepare you for that.

He's right, you know. Not that I was in the Navy, but I did see "Top Gun" four times...

CFI experience is good for entry-level civilian pilots because most are young...it gives them an opportunity to get a little PIC in a commercial environment where you have competing priorities and pressures. You learn a little about responsibility, leadership, and complacency...

1000 hours of CFI is enough time to get complacent (around 400 hours), and then have the poop scared out of you later...which puts complacency in perspective. Civilians who have never worked in a high-risk business (military, LE, diving, fire-fighting, etc) will almost invariably become complacent in the cockpit if nothing exciting happens to them.

The cockpit feels like the inside of their car...but operating an airplane is really more like riding a motorcycle in traffic. If you hit something or lose control, you're screwed.

Older career-changers usually don't suffer if they skip CFI.

Transformation
 

I read the entire thread. I don't think a pilot, regional or else, should be required to have CFIs, but I think it will better prepare them to be captains. Especially when their FOs are the inexperienced pilot flying a jet to minimums in a blizzard.

My point was: What will prepare a pilot for that? I agree that a CFI won't either, but EVERY pilot won't be prepared a some point in there career. There's no really easy transition from piston to turboprop/jet.





OO