Air Traffic Controller
 

Hey everyone,

This maybe off the regional topics but this forum gets the most hits it seems ans the best chance for a good answer. Im 27 have a commercial multi and was thinking of getting my CFI soon. However with the way things have been going with airlines and starting to furlough of go under completly I was thinking about ATC and what that entails. Like I said I have my comm multi, and also a 4yr degree from UVSC. Could anyone explain the ATC road and what it takes to get into (training ect.). What are the odds of getting my home city of KROC and staying here. I really really dont want to move. Just any info would be really great! Thanks!

I dont know much of anything about the process but from what I hear a move is almost inevitable.

My girlfriend got hired off the street. It took her a few months of applying to just about every open position listed on the FAA's website, but they eventually called and she went to take the written for them in New York. Not long after that she interviewed for a position here in West Lafayette, and they hired her originally for Alaska. She requested the West coast (and technically got it...) and she was able to work them so they put her first in a tower at a Class D airport near LA, but when she found out there were open positions, they put her in SoCal TRACON.

From the sounds of things, if you have a family or roots somewhere they will work with you as best they can to get you close. She told them we were engaged, and I was in San Diego and she got it so you never know. They are hurting for controllers almost everywhere so the ball is for the most part going to be in your court, as long as you stay persistent and put up with the usual FAA bullsh*t. If you have any questions, PM me and I'll put you in contact with her and she'll give you the details as to what she had to do.

Hey, good news. $8.75 / hour to start !!! There are reasons they are "hurting" for controllers. Get some insight at: www.natca.org

Probably the single best source for newhire infor is www.atccti.com

Being a new hire, presumably off the street, no experience, and being sent to SoCal is like going to slaughter, in my opinion. This NEVER happened in the past, and even with experienced controllers, there were still washouts. By the way, I'm a former fully area rated controller at SoCal.

The only thing I can offer about comparing an ATC career with an airline career right now is that both are rocky roads.:D

I suggest the video "Pushing Tin", it's a very informative documentary on the life of an air traffic controller ;)

Obviously I really have nothing relevant to offer, but the best of luck to you!

Tonywilliams,

Any help having a 4yr degree and a comm. multi? Do they take those into consideration for anything like getting hired? Thanks!

In the past, you had to have the degree with MARC or CTI credentials. Now, if you can chew gum and walk, you're in.

The only thing that would sink you would be a criminal record, drunk driving, etc. The same stuff that would likely tank starting an airline career.

They also don't care if you're a pilot. It won't help you much in a radar enviroment (about 75% of ATC is at radar facilities), and may give you a small benefit in a tower.

You need to go to the FAA website and apply for the postion via their ASAP program. Once you fill out the user info that can be used for any applications you want to send to the FAA in the future. After that, apply for the FAA position. You need to make sure you apply to one that's available to the general public, not qualified controllers or CTI grads. The FAA is currently accepting applicants off the street.

After that, you will be contacted to take the AT-SAT if your application is accepted. It's an 8 hour test spanning 8 different cognitive subjects (Math, Angles, Dials, Letter Factory, Traffic Control etc.) There's an ASA book with a cd available to practice. You're looking for a score of at least 85% (that's considered "Well Qualified"). After that, you'll interview, fill out a geographical preference, take some medical and psychological tests, plus go through a small security clearance/background investigation so make sure your credit is in order. Pending successful completion of all that you will be offered a class date in OKC.

Pay at OKC is approx. $33,100.00. You make that until you get to your training facility, which is the facility you accepted the position for. Once there, you are given pay raises based on how far along in the training you go. You get incremental pay raises for completing 25%, 50%, and 75% then receive full pay once you are completely qualified for the facility. It takes about 2 years to go from zero to fully qualified. This is around the 90K area but depends on the level of the facility you are working at. You are also given a "locality pay" on top of your salary. The base locality pay is an extra 13.5% of your annual salary. The highest locality pay right now is for controllers in the Houston area at roughly 27%. So, a Houston controller (Level 12 facility) would make between 90K-120K plus an extra 27% of that.

The pay rates for new controllers are significantly lower than that of older controllers. All controllers are on year 3 of a 7 year "pay freeze". Basically, there's no real significant pay increases except at the discretion of your supervisor. This can be a pretty "political" event. Also, controllers had their "Non-tract" imposed on them with a limited amount of room to maneuver to better their postion (as demonstrated by Regan in the 80's). The moral of the story is ATC has it's pro's and con's. As a certificated pilot, you'll have a leg up on hiring beyond some guy that doesn't know what an airplane looks like. Hope this helps, PM me if you have any additional questions.

Does anyone know for certain what kind of pension federal controllers receive after retirement?

and sharky, you obviously know what you are talking about, thanks for the info. but just a small correction... pay during training is actually about 19k (about 1600/month) with a daily per diem. you get the 33k after you finish training I believe. also, MAX pay at level 11 (the highest level available on the new payscale) is $98,525 (not including locality.) so, the MAX base pay any of the new hires can possibly earn is 98k, not sure where you got the upper range of 120k. possible you know something i dont.
the thing that makes me wonder when looking at this pay chart... there is "minimum" and "maximum" pay for each level... for example, the payscale says that at 100% qualified and level 11, the max pay is 98k, and the min pay is 68k. to me, it seems like they are saying that you are guaranteed 68k, but may or may never reach 98k (and you certainly wont go over that). (kind of like min guarantee in the airlines.. you're guaranteed 75 hrs, and it may be possible to make more than guarantee, but that doesnt mean you ever will.)
because that's a difference of 30k! 98k is a respectable sum of money, but 68k for slaving away at the busiest tracons and towers in the country? not so much.

From what i've heard, you have to be hired by the FAA by the time your 28 years old. Now that doesn't give you much time to go through training which will probably take a couple years since you're already 27. But the good news is, that I believe the age 28 rule is only if you work as an FAA controller, you can still be a controller at a contract tower and make really good money, as in 60k to 70k to start. The reason contract towers must pay more is because they want experience before they'll hire you, which means someone would have to quit an FAA job and go work for them, which suprise suprise, doesn't happen too often. But if you can get on working a towered field for a couple years, I would say you have a really good chance of getting hired at a contract tower.

As far as I know, the academy at OKC is only a couple months. It will take a fair amount of time to certify at your facility, depending on where you go but I believe as long as you are officially "hired" prior to your 28th birthday you are ok.

you ever thought about going into the military for ATC? I've thought about going into the Air National Guard as a controller to supplement my flying career... I would be there right now if it didn't mean the year or so I'd be giving up building time.

If everything stays the same after Jan 21, 2009, you'll get a FERS retirement with special provisions for ATC, Federal Firefighters and Federal Law Enforcement.

Those provisions are 25 years of ATC service (2152 series), retirement at any age, or 20 years service and age 50. Your retirement is calculated on your highest salary over a continuous 36 months of credible service.

So, if you made 100k per annum for 36 continuous months, and worked 20 years of credible service (and age 50), you would receive an immediate pension of 1.7% per year of service (times 20 years), or 34% of 100k.

In addition, there's currently a social security payment, but it's any guess where that'll be in 20 or 30 years from now. Finally, there's a 401(k) type plan (called TSP) that matches contributions up to 5%. The max contribution this year per IRS regulation is about $15k (or 10k your tax deferred money, and 5k of the agency's using the 100k annual salary example).

You must be hired before age 31, and must retire in the month that you become 56.

I'm not the expert on the imposed B scale pay plan of Sept 2006, but for a good primer, try:


http://faaimposedpayrules.natca.net/

Old work rules for controllers prior to Sept 2006:

http://atpayplan.natca.net/

I think that you'll need to be on the boards for a few decades to hit that $98k number. Getting checked out may get you 68k. Yes, there is locality pay on top of the base pay.

The pay scale goes from an ATC-4 (El Monte, California tower is an ATC-5) to an ATC-12 (LA Center, SoCal approach).

Yes, there is locality pay on top of the base pay. The lowest is about 11%, the highest about 27%. Hawaii and Alaska do not get locality pay, but instead receive a 25% Cost of Living Allowance (not factored into your base pay for retirement calculations).

...........

I just retired from the FAA May 25th. When I got hired the max age was 31. The retirement is 20 years at age 50 or 25 years at any age. The max age to control is 56. It was 31 plus 25 equals 56 thus the reason for the age 31. It has changed so much over the years. I retired the day I was eligible because it was a miserable place to work. The management sux big time (I call it the cess pool theory. The Terds float to the top.) If you think airline management is bad you need to see the clowns that run the FAA (I've worked in the airline industry also.) Pay has been cut big time for the new hires. Medical benefits aren't that great and they changed the retirement to a new retirement right after I hired on in 82. Luckily, I am under the old retirement system (CSRS.) The new retirement systems depends a lot on Social Security if that tells you anything. Also there is no mandate for excellence. The FAA is mediocrity at its finest. Their version of productivity is take the work of 2 people, have 4 people do it and claim an increase in productivity. The FAA is becoming just like the airlines when it comes to pay and benefits. I have noticed over the years the employees that never complained and bent over backwards to help management out are becoming extremely rare and few and far between these days. Even these employees are disgruntled. If you want to become a controller, knock yourself out but let me warn you, when the new wears off the odds are great you will be miserable. Oh and for the record, Pushing Tin was one of the stupidest movies I have ever seen. The only thing that was accurate was the phraseology.

If you don't get privatized just like Flight Service did in Oct 2005 (where you'll get no pension unless you're eligible to retire prior). One day short ? Too bad. But, thanks for your 19 years and 355 days.

After the academy in OKC, where you'll be paid less than $9 hour plus per diem, you'll go on to your facility where you'll get $31,700 per year.

Then, if you check out in a few years, you'll get the following plus whatever locality applies.

Here's the ATC- "B" pay scale:

ATC Level


Minimum



4- $37,200


5- $37,200


6- $44,750


7- $45,300


8- $52,850


9- $55,200


10-$62,750


11-$67,400


12-$74,950



Maximum (after a boat load of years)



4- $50,050


5- $50,050


6- $57,600


7- $62,650


8- $70,200


9--$78,050


10-$85,600


11-$96,950


12-$104,500

...........

No, it's 31

..............................

My pay when I retired was above $160K/yr (No overtime at all). We had some controllers that made over $200K/yr with a lot of overtime. You may think that for that much money you could be happy with anything but trust me, that's not the case. The treatment gets old and money doesn't make up for it. Take it from someone that has lived it!!!!!

Age before beauty, tango whiskey..

tw,
please see post #19, clear what you need to and I'll be happy to comply..

To summarize, under age 31 to hire on, must retire at 56, you'll get paid to go to the OKC ATC academy, then paid $31,700 (plus locality or COLA) at your first facility, then there are pay raises as you meet milestones toward certification.

The MOST money you will make will be at a facility in a high cost of living area PLUS the highest pay. Certainly, LA center is close to the highest paid, with an ATC-12 pay band and about 22% locality pay.

So, after 3 or 4 years, you get checked out, your pay is ATC-12, or $74,950, plus 22% locality.

Should you go to Podunk tower in No Wheres Ville, you'll get ATC-4 pay after you check out in about one year, or $37,200 plus the lowest locality pay of about 11%.

http://jobs.faa.gov/asap_detail.asp?vac_id=106136 This is the newest public announcement to be an OTS (Off the Street) Controller. If you need anymore information or help let me know.

To the OP . . . most of these vacancies give you the ability to pick a specific facility, so if you want to go to ROC, and only ROC, pick ROC . . . but if they aren't looking for anyone there, you'll be out of luck for a while, but hey, you never know.

Something else to consider . . . if you take a tower job somewhere and want to leave, it will probably be a minimum 3-4 years after you certify before they'll let you go. To leave my first tower, I quit and worked at a contract tower, then re-applied and got back into the FAA 4 months later (where I wanted to be). I've heard rumors that they're catching on to this little game though, so take that into consideration.

At the contract tower I made in the neighborhood of $53000/yr . . . the same as I make at a level 7 up/down facility right now in WI. I worked at a level 6 tower in the LA area last year and made $59000/yr, thanks to a 24% locality adjustment.

I think I read your story on the NATCA BBS. Certainly, it could be longer than 4 months. It took me ten years to get out of my first facility. There's a reason guys used to wear shirts at LA center adorned with "ZLA, Doing 25 to life". People did quit and get rehired where they wanted to go, but there was an unofficial one year out policy. They're so screwed up now, anything is possible, or not possible.

Many of these issues are a repeat of the post strike era (Aug 3, 1981). I hired on in the 80's, and because I scored over a certain threshold at the FAA academy, I was assigned a center (we didn't hire on to a facility, it was assigned based on merit). I think under a 70% score was failure, although I know of one who scored 69% and was offered Flight Service. Between 70% and 80% were assigned towers, above that to centers. No new hires went to stand alone approach controls then, like SoCal TRACON.

Then, the FAA academy was a 50% washout rate, and about a 40% washout rate at ZOA (Oakland Center, San Francisco Bay area), where I started, and spent my first 10 years.

Now, I'm told virtually everybody passes the academy, and it is no longer a "screen". At the facility level, there's a lot of pressure to sign off everybody (that includes marginal performers) because of the horrendous staffing at many, if not most facilities.

Six day work weeks, and ten hour days are in effect at many facilities. Low moral, a more marginal management team than their normal marginal level (fully staffed, by the way), and lots of hate and discontent. Over 200 quit last year. Not retired, not moving on to the "major" ATC company. Quit. Plenty got fired in their one year probationary time, one for not making it to work in weather that others didn't make to work either. 12 seasoned controllers from New York Approach (TRACON) were fired for "culture change", after they failed to check box 18a on their medical applications, and list their already FAA approved work compensation (NATCA got every one of them their jobs back in arbitration, without calling a witness). By the way, if you want to see these guys, watch the movie UAL93. They played the controllers in the movie while they were out of work.

Good luck.

Career Opportunity
U.S. Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration


Federal Aviation Administration Logo

Announcement Number : AAC-AMH-08-PUBNAT4-09989 Opening Date : Jun 17, 2008
Closing Date : Jun 30, 2008
Position : Air Traffic Control Specialist Trainee
Series : 2152
Business Component : Air Traffic Organization.
Duty Location(s) : Throughout The Nation, United States - Vacancies: Many
Salary Range : $17,046 - $22,591
FG-1 Information about Locality Pay
Information about COLA
Information about Citizenship
Who May Apply : All Sources
We are not accepting applications from non-citizens.
Job Status : Full Time
Appointment Duration : Temporary NTE - 13 months

If I wanted to only go to either KBTL or KAZO.... Would they let me know if I could get a spot at either of those before I go through training? Or do you complete training and then are assigned an airport? The reason I ask is I just bought a house and want to stay in the area but I am close to 4 controlled airports and wanted to know the likelihood of me being able to get one of them? Thanks!!

[quote=jmcmanna;405799]To the OP . . . most of these vacancies give you the ability to pick a specific facility, so if you want to go to ROC, and only ROC, pick ROC . . . but if they aren't looking for anyone there, you'll be out of luck for a while, but hey, you never know.

I just dont think that I could take that chance of not getting ROC. I really cant move right now due to family and personal reasons. I really cant afford to take the time to try and not get what I need and be stuck with nothing. Hope that makes sence. Thanks for all the input though everyone really appreciate it!

Last payscale I saw had "2007" stamped at the top. It still included ATC-12 facilities and as far as I know they are still in effect. That one had people topping out around 120K plus locality. Like you said, that's the MAX you're going to get. Min was 90K. The highest locality I saw was Houston at 27% followed by SoCal, DC, NY, etc. around 22%. Since Houston is cheaper (and hotter) then hell to live in, I can only imagine they're having trouble getting people to go there.

As far as I know, the pension is what was stated above and supplemented by a 401k. That's second-hand info from a buddy of mine whose got 20+ years at ATC. The majority of what I know is regarding the hiring process, everything else I'm learning from my friend plus what I read on here and on other boards. Get into it if you want, it probably won't be for everyone. Much like being an airline pilot, I'm sure people complain over there just as much as they do here.