Perdiem or No Perdiem
 

Would you rather do day trips without perdiem, or two or three day trips and get perdiem?

Per Diem
 

Per Diem isn't pay.

SkyHigh

And now an answer from somebody who isn't a bitter, couldn't-hack-it quitter, brought to you by Quit Whining Productions:
I'm young and single, and don't mind being away from the apartment for a few days at a go. Additionally, not having to drive to and from work every day is one of the things I love about this job. The added bonus to this is that once you build an overnight into the trip, the per diem becomes nontaxable. That really starts to add up over the month.

I would rather have per-diem everyday, It is baloney to work for someone who does not have per-diem on day trips. I know from experience. However to answer your question, sleeping in your own bed has a price, for me it is worth no per-diem.

they give me an extra 500-600 a month that is non taxable for doing all 4 day trips. I actually use my per diem for most of my food, gas, and other bills through out the month and let my flight pay go towards my student loan, rent, car and such.

While your perdiem isn't income (as skyhigh said) if you were living at home eating bolagna sandwiches you'd still need to buy the meat and bread, so, if you live out of your food case on your trips, it is extra money going towards something you'd need anyway. Or in my case, (as someone who does enjoy eating out) It's not bad to know that you're eating for free, i can eat those bolagna sandwiches when i get back from my 4 day. So, yeh i'm a perdiem man....

Something interesting though, at 25000 a year, you'll notice your perdiem more than you will once you make captain, as an FO i lived off the stuff making my paychecks managable. As a CA, i typically don't even notice that i have the extra in there.

i didn't even know there were places that didn't give you per diem (taxable of course) for day trips. that's a scam. but me personally, for many reasons, prefer getting the big non-taxable per diem that comes from doing 4 day trips. i don't really understand the "it's not pay" point of view. i would say it's not something to compare employer to employer on, or to consider it a "perk" or anything like that. we are, by law, entitled to a certain amount of recapture, and the difference between what we get and what we don't is tax deductible (75% of it was this past year). but it definitely helps to get that money. if you work a regular job, going to work each day and going home each night, you get nothing, yet you still have to eat. so getting extra money to be gone is a nice thing. someone mentioned they prefer sleeping in their own bed, and are willing to forgo that money, so that's a great option. i prefer the money, personally. we each have our own situations.

Who do you all work for not getting per diem on day trips???

We get per diem from the minute we sign in to sign out regardless.
The difference is on day trips, per diem is taxed. On multi day trips, it is not, but regardlss, we do get per diem.

That's at Piedmont..

Hell I live in base and I still bid 4-day trips. Per-diem is a cool 36 tax-free bucks a day, and I get out of the damn house to boot.

Why does SkyHigh even bother reading these forums on a regular basis anymore? I dont get it.

Forums
 

Why do you read these forums?

Skyhigh

On a 4-day trip, per diem accounts for 20-25% of my total pay.

Then again I'm still on first year for another 3 months.

SkyHigh is the eyes, ears, nose and throat of the airline industry.......

FDX doesn't pay per diem for out and backs (i.e., no layover). :(

Why wouldn't you want per diem? It's the only thing that makes first year pay liveable. Plus as everyone has said, it's typically non taxable.

With the money you make, do you need it?

But your FO's make more than most CA's at other airlines.

Technically speaking you are right it is not pay. I consider it a payment. If I keep my overnight expenses down, it's added pay to me.

I wouldn't work at a regional that didn't pay you per diem for day trips. You are already barely scraping by as it is. That extra $300-$700 a month is very important.

As for Fedex not paying per diem for day trips, well it wouldn't really make a difference on their pay as much as it does for a regional pilot.

Somebody once said, it's not personal, it's just bid-ness, and someone else said, concerning money, "it's not what you get, it's what you get to keep." That seems to me to be one of the few thing we as pilots might have some control over, but YMMV.

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up...but Colgan does not get per diem on day trips. AND if you do an overnight, you have to make up an expense report for your per diem/car rental/mileage...AND THEN you have to have it approved...

That is just ridiculous...:eek::(

oh...now it's all crystal clear.

Beans
 

We all could pay ourselves by eating beans instead of steak but that isn't really getting paid. It is sacrificing yourself to save money.

Personally I don't care but when pilots include per diem in statements about their income then it is artificially inflating the truth. It also adds to self delusion.

Per Diem isn't pay but it is better than a sharp stick in the eye.

SkyHigh

It could go either way, depending on you...

I usually eat out, or eat deli food in, so I was going to spend the money anyway whether I was home or not...for me it's bonus money.

If you usually eat top ramen and bologna when at home, then you might need the per diem to cover the extra cost of eating on the road.

one more reason for ALPA to start educating flight instructors and these students at these pilot mills about airline contracts and the good and the bad places to work. I bet a lot of the people who are employed at those less than desirable companies either had no idea what they were getting themselves into or had some ding on their record that prevented them from going someplace better. Most flight instructors don't even know what per diem is...

Yes. It wouldn't even cost them a lot of money...I'm sure they could find plenty of line-pilot volunteers willing to spend a couple hours at the home patch or their alma-mater.

This is something that the ALPA national Education Committee should be doing more of. Its just kind of hard when the flight instructor is more interested in how fast/high/far your jet goes rather than what the respective per diems are in each pilot contract. I volunteered four straight days to this committee a couple of months ago and this is the type of stuff you deal with.

First part is true

Second part as of recently is no longer true, at least on the CAL side. Per diem is automatic and you get a report at the end of the month and only submit a per diem sheet if your numbers do not match theres. I also have to submit my receipts to them such as being reimbursed for parking at the base I commute from. This is just as of the past month though.

We seem to be going around in circle's here (as we usually do). To answer the original poster's question I would like to point out two things.

1. Money is money. It doesn't really matter which column it shows up in on your paycheck. What really matters is the amount that you put in your bank account.

2. It seems your trying to figure out whether overnights are offset by the increase in cash. I would say that you shouldn't choose primarily on per diem or not, but it should be a factor in your decision process. If you like less commuting and live far away from your base, overnights are an excellent choice to maximize working time and the per diem is a bonus. Keep in mind that its not a huge amount of money, but just enough to offset living expenses while on the road.

I hope this helps, and good luck to you.