Pilot or ATC
 

Well I hope some one can give me some good advice, Im 19 and starting college to be a pilot, and thats all I have ever wanted to do, but it looks like there wont be any jobs or very few airlines hiring when im ready to apply. So I have been thinking to change my degree plan to ATC, I think it might be a more secure job to go with than an airline pilot with all the Furloughs going on. So im just looking for some advice about my plan and being a pilot. Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

My buddy left the airline world to be a controller - He loves his job . He maintains his CFI and gets local 135 gigs on the side. He's home everyday - Wheres shorts and a tshirt to work and makes better money and has better benies than me. Not to say there arent any challenges in the ATC world but hey, at least there arent gonna be 4,000 controllers on the street in the next year like there will be pilots in the airline biz.....

Maybe you could get an ATC minor in school?

Why limit yourself? Do both and that way your "Plan B" is made.

You know, its really only a decision that you can make yourself, and it will probably be a hard call!

There are definite pros and cons to both sides.

Lets deal with the airlines first: I don't know how many hours you have, but you're going to have to build a lot of time to land an airline job. The days of getting in with 300 hours are probably over for quite a long time! There is going to be a huge supply of qualified high time pilot out there looking for work in the next few years and that is going to make it ultra-competitive for available jobs. Not to mention the cost of flying to build your hours is going to go up with every increase in gas.

While flying is a great life for those who love it - it also has its downsides. Low pay, long hours, little opportunity for living your life - at least during the first few years. Those things tend to improve with time. Its not as glamorous as it once was. Keep in mind that a lot of us live in hotel rooms in Podunk, USA on most of our trips -- nothing like a South Bend, Indiana overnight on Christmas Eve!

ATC: The pay is definitely good, the job (currently) is much more secure and the outlook is pretty good. You will have a good schedule and good benefits. The work is hard and stressful though...you may not enjoy sitting in front of a computer screen yelling at pilots for 8 hours a day. You may end up a controller in Podunk, USA.

A good friend of mine was a controller in the Air Force. He's now an FO at American Eagle. He had the opportunity to take an ATC job with a ridiculously much higher pay scale than what he's making now...but he wanted to fly. No word yet if he regrets that decision or not at this time. However, I think if he faced the conditions we are looking at now in hiring, he might have taken that job. And he always has that to fall back on. But he loves flying more than anything else...and I think he would do ATC and fly in his spare time.

So you have to weigh the pros and cons of both career paths. I can tell you that getting into a flying job at this time and in the near future is going to be hard to nearly impossible until all the furloughed pilots have found a new job. That could take a year or more depending on what happens with the airline industry. Nobody has a crystal ball to see that though...

In the end you need to follow your gut instinct. Consider both careers carefully. Maybe see if you can get a tour of an ATC facility and talk with the people that work there, see how they like it, see what they think about it. Evaluate if you could stand doing that type of work -- since you already know you love flying!!

Good luck to you in either path you choose!

Go to school to be a controller and get your ratings. Then in a couple of years, when you get out of school, you can go one way or the other. I really think this industry is going to turn around and I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. Good luck on your decision.

Flex

ATC is on a downhill slide to due labor issues (which appear to be due to management failures). Hard to say whether it's going downhill faster than the airlines though.

If you think you would enjoy controlling, definately keep that option open. Fortunately you're young enough to wait a few years and see which way the wind is going to blow in aviation. Like someone said, I know several controllers who are active in general aviation.

This question comes up regularly here. Don't do either as a college major. Study and get a degree in ANYTHING but aviation related stuff. Something that interests you would be fine.

FAA ATC is no longer wearing shorts, t-shirts and flip flops to work. Many are working 6 day work weeks, 10 hours a day. It's a poisonous work atmosphere, and the starting pay is 37k on a "B scale".

I probably don't need to spell out all the failings of the airline industry on here.

What good schedule ? Even in the "good ole days", you get Tue/Wed off, with a midshift thrown in the end of your work week. Just like airlines, there is seniority. You're not going to walk into a "good schedule", then or now. It's just a lot worse now.

Job security ? Sure, you'll get the same job security that FSS got on Oct 1, 2005. It was "thanks for stopping by". Their services were no longer needed, and the agency is not even sorry that some came up a few days short of retirement.

With the upcoming change in the White House, anything could happen. There may not be a federal ATC workforce anymore.

The benefits aren't anything more than you'd get with any decent company. Life and health insurance, 401(k) (called a TSP), paid vacation and sick time, blah, blah.

Absolutely don't go to school to be a controller. They are hiring folks off the street. No college degree, no formal training. Just able to speak, read and understand English. Over 18, able to hold a second class medical.

You don't need to spend ONE PENNY or minute of your life to get a controller job. And there's a reason it's so easy, and will be for years to come (well, if it's not privatized).

Wise words. The airlines are looking for any 4 year degree; not necessarily aviation related. That being said I don't know if I would have studied any other field since I always wanted to be a pilot. Frankly I love what I do and as depressing as the industry is right now, I really don't see myself leaving it until aviation is extinct. So my two cents is follow your heart. Keep in mind if you do go the flying route, you have about six years to see how things work out. Four years for your degree and another 2 years instructing to get competitive time. And if you need to hedge, minor in aviation while earning your certs and major in a "safer" subject.

Agreed. The best action, IMHO, is to major in something that is readily marketable. An actual skill, not psychology or something. Get your ratings on the side and see what happens. Being a pilot just isn't a good career anymore. The competition is high, especially right now, or for the next 3-5 years anyway. If you can land a JOB, then enjoy it, but always be ready to fall back on your non-aviation training.

I am in my 2nd year at a regional. I much enjoy my job, but I am almost 90% certain that I'll be furloughed or the company will go out of business within the next 6 months. All the planets are aligning, unfortunately. I am sticking it out for now just as a "hale mary" to pad the logbook as much as I can while the getting is good, but I'll probably be back at a desk job (for which I majored in) inside of a year, unless I decide to instruct for a while, but even those jobs will probably be taken. But, I'll catch it on the upswing again. It feels good to know that I don't NEED aviation to put food on the table. You might feel the same way.

If it helps....I did the whole pilot route, was a cfi for a while, flying for the regionals now and trying to get into ATC now for more job securtity. Took the AT-SAT last friday, should know in a few more days what I made. ASA publishes a book called Air Traffic Control Prep, its a pretty good book and will help you study for the exam. Good luck

Exactly. Just a few years ago until 2006 (or even 2007?) the only way to become a controller was through the military or CTI. I went through the CTI program (thank god I only minored in it as opposed to the full major!), and just a year or two after I graduated from that program, the FAA started hiring off the street. So obviously there is absolutely no need to spend money on that now. In fact there is no need to spend money on any degree that's aviation-related.. trust me I knooooow :````(

You can always play grass is greener. ATC sucks. The airline sucks. They both suck. ATC guys now flying (T.Williams) having not much good to say about ATC - Airline guys now in ATC having nothing but good things to say...I guess your damned if you do, damned if you dont. It all depends on where you are in life...I've met a number of ATC guys who are approaching retirement and have always wanted to fly...and are now or in the process of doing it.. But, bottom line is the airlines just like ATC are nothing like they used to be....They both blow. Pick your poison. I'd take being home myself......

No "Shiny Radar Display Syndrome" here!

I know that your thinking you should get your degree in the field that you desire the most. Half way through that route- your going to grow to regret that decision. Specific degrees in aviation are not required to become a pilot. Get your degree in something totally different from aviation. Something in the business field would be fine- just not aviation.

When you graduate college, all of your buddies that majored in business-whatever are likely to go straight to work making ok money, I'd hate to see you get hung out to dry with your aviation degree....plus the cost of your aviation degree is going to be through the roof if you are getting your flight training there as well.

Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate, I don't know. It seems that everyone in aviation says don't get a degree in aviation because it's worthless. However, I know people in the real world who say lots of jobs are like the airlines.. they could care less what your degree is in. Examples.. degree in history just to become a pharmaceutical rep makeing almost 6 figures, high school diploma to become a nuclear reactor operator. These are just a few, but I say get a degree in what you want, especially if it's something you're interested in.

I agree with this post wholeheartedly. (Maybe because I wrote it)

I would also condone working in your backup field for a little while before taking up aviation. When I graduated college, I worked for 17 months in my majored field, earned about $55,000 during the process. Bought a house, paid off the cars, etc. Life requires some prep costs to set yourself up, working in your backup field first might help you better weather the first few years of ultra low pilot pay. Also, your backup resume will have some experience on it should you ever need it.

I fly with so many pilots who have no other marketable skills. It sucks for them. If they get the oust, its back to school. You are young enough now to make the right decision at the onset.

You'll thank me later.

Since no one else has brought it up...

There is always the military option. I'm not going to preach or get into any details, there are other threads you can read, or you can ask me and I'll tell you more. I was a business/engineering major in college, and then went off to fly for the USAF for 9 years. I loved it and wouldn't trade it for anything.

But that was my experience and you need to figure out what you want.

As far as what everyone else is saying, the one thing I ABSOLUTLY agree with is to major in something that you're really interested in. You'll enjoy college a whole lot more AND you'll get better grades doing it!

Good luck!

Thanks for all the info, you all brought up good points. I still have alot to think about and Ill look more into ATC and military options.

I applied for a controller spot with no degree and I am going for the FAA's pre-screen testing on Thursday. If this industry keeps going this direction, a government job is starting to look nice now..hehe.:D

Just retired after 25 years. If you think airline management is bad get hired by the FAA as a controller (I've worked for both.) You will soon see, comparatively speaking, that that the worst managed airline is much better than FAA management. And also don't count on flying on the side. The FAA is putting the brakes on that. Calling it a conflict of interest. I flew part 135 corporate and after a while got talked to by my supervisor and had to sign a paper from FAA legal that stated that if I flew for hire again that I understand that I will be terminated immediately. It really sucks there. If you don't believe me just look at all the retirements. Most, like myself, are going the day they are eligible. I was making $160,000 plus a year and it wasn't worth it any longer. Many in our facility made over $200K with overtime and they are bailing out. New employees shouldn't count on making half that much at any point in your career.

see if your still smiling when the FFA turns ATC over to Boeing or LockMart and you pension is down the toilet, just ask the FSS folks how they were treated

Is the AT-SAT the same as the FAA pre-employment test?

If I can keep a job in aviation I'll be happy. A newly painted old jet isn't everything at the rate things are happening these days.

I sure hope not. Since LockMart took over FSS's suck.:mad:

Yeah, privatization is the answer:rolleyes:

I've seen in get better or at least the people I've dealt with or the phone.

Go ask a former ATC controller who is on the street now because of a "contract tower". There are plenty of ATC guys who lost their jobs just before retirement, much like the pilot industry. If you dont know what a contract tower is, it is a tower facility that is run by a private contractor employing controllers who are not employed by the FAA, and are paid a lower salary (many are former military controllers) and they are all over the place. The used to be FAA controlled facilities. Basically any tower that did not a have a tracon facilitiy colocated on the premesis became a contract tower. Every tower in the PHX area except sky harbor are contract towers. So yes there are 4000 controllers on the streets, and I know this because I deal black jack with one of them.

Why are there 4,000 controllers on the street when the FAA can't hire enough controllers?

The reason the FAA is recruiting off the street is because the controllers brought in during the Reagan administration are retiring.

The program you're referring to was in response to the post strike era (post Aug 3, 1981). All the controllers displaced from contract towers were offered positions at FAA facilities. Your 4000 number on the streets is just whacked. None were put on the streets. The agency is currently GROSSLY understaffed for ATC positions. That's why they'll hire anybody.

Now, in the last few years, Oct 1, 2005, the FAA put 2200 Flight Service folks on the street. That's true. I think only about 300 were able to get an ATC job. Could that be what you're referring to ?

Meat is exactly right. I did it and was very grateful that I did. I've got two degrees in the aviation field, non-pilot, and flew on the side. Now I have much more knowlege about the industry and get to fly if I want. It's a win-win.

Stay away from aviation. Engineering, medicine, law..etc.