Letter from MEC Jumpseat Committee, July 8, 2008
07-08-2008, 11:36 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 328
This whole thing sickens me. The real issue here is we need to find a way take the jumpseat back from the gate agents. All jumpseat decisions should be made by the captain not a computer there's no reason why the gate agent can't walk down the jetway and present the captain with the j/s request and let him/her make the call. Why can't we just make this a requirement on all UAX flights that the gate agent has to check with the captain whenever there is a question over jumpseat priority? Maybe we can solve this without resorting to the "nuclear" option of a UAL/UAX jumpseat war. I'm afraid this is going to quickly turn into a pride/ego thing on both sides with neither wanting to give the appearance of backing down. I hope this can be resolved quickly before it gets out of control.
07-09-2008, 04:14 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: IAH 320 CA
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by SharkyBN584
The argument could also be that UAL pilots have been screwing over UAX pilots for years with a JS system that favors them over us on our own friggin' airplanes. It's even better when they state that the Jumpseat shouldn't be used as a political tool...unless someone else starts it first...then it's a free-for-all. I don't use UAL to commute, ever. And anywhere I do need to go on UAL, there's others that go there too (and their flight will probably be on time).
Your management has shown no willingness to correct the situation...but your pilots have shown plenty of willingness to occupy our jumpseat while leaving our pilots sitting at the gate wondering what the hell just happened.
Your management has shown no willingness to correct the situation...but your pilots have shown plenty of willingness to occupy our jumpseat while leaving our pilots sitting at the gate wondering what the hell just happened.
"What the hell just happened"? For cripes sake man!! Stand up for your rights! Go talk to the Captain! Get a supervisor involved!
I commute every trip. It's pretty cut and dried from where I stand that any S.A. guy that shows up on the CMH/ORD route is going to bump me out of the jumpseat. If I'm a Republic guy and I see some jerk UA pilot that thinks he's taking the jumpseat.......GROW SOME STONES and tell him in no uncertain terms that it is your priority for the jumpseat! I can't believe that this is even an issue. Who the heck cares what the CSR says? It's the "C"aptains jumpseat. Hopefully the "c"aptain does not let a CSR dictate who gets to sit there......... They don't, do they????!!!
Look, I can tell you right now. The programming is NOT going to get fixed. UA mgmt is NOT going to spend the money on it's employees, just look at the past. It has ZILCH to do with the UA pilots or the UAL MEC. Yet, the band of regionals have decided to dork over the pilots in some sort of leverage play.
Therefore, take responsibility for your jumpseat Captains!!! I know I do.
07-09-2008, 04:17 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: CRJ 200/700 FO
Posts: 28
Another response to the whole computer software issue.....United's software for processing NRSA requests (regular employee pass travel) is CORRECT.
Mainline = mainline, then UAX
UAX = own metal, UAL, other UAX
THIS SOFTWARE IS CORRECT......can't they use the same software for j/s requests???
And to repeat what exwaterski said, what is the deal with agents regulating the jumpseat??? This whole thing is sick, sick, sick.
Mainline = mainline, then UAX
UAX = own metal, UAL, other UAX
THIS SOFTWARE IS CORRECT......can't they use the same software for j/s requests???
And to repeat what exwaterski said, what is the deal with agents regulating the jumpseat??? This whole thing is sick, sick, sick.
07-09-2008, 04:44 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
problem is..... getting access to the CA.... sometimes its just not happening.... Many times UAX flights are quick turning 25 minutes or so.... and even if the CA checks once.... whos to say somebody does screw the system up after?
The WHOLE issue is pathetic.... TWO years UAL MEC has known of the problem and did little or nothing but make excuses as to a quick fix..... 18+ months seems pretty long term to me..... THEN the UAX JS people make this threat.....followed by a lecture from some pompus UAL MEC jerk who states that the JS shouldnt be used in this way and THEN goes on to threaten an EARLY first strike to prove that he is bigger and badder......
I dont have a dog in this fight anymore as I just left my old UAX carrier for a corporate gig but personally I dont think the guys I flew with will be denying the JS anytime soon. Im sure it will happen on both sides..... and some guys will get their ass in a pickle.... I guess from the UAX side of things there wont be so many mainline guys in the coming months JS'ing with the parking of the 73's.
In many ways you could say that mainline fired the first shot allowing UAX pilots to be denied their rightful JS..... a partial solution is for pilots on BOTH sides to be aware of other JS'ers in the gate area and do the right thing... but maybe thats too much to ask.....
The WHOLE issue is pathetic.... TWO years UAL MEC has known of the problem and did little or nothing but make excuses as to a quick fix..... 18+ months seems pretty long term to me..... THEN the UAX JS people make this threat.....followed by a lecture from some pompus UAL MEC jerk who states that the JS shouldnt be used in this way and THEN goes on to threaten an EARLY first strike to prove that he is bigger and badder......
I dont have a dog in this fight anymore as I just left my old UAX carrier for a corporate gig but personally I dont think the guys I flew with will be denying the JS anytime soon. Im sure it will happen on both sides..... and some guys will get their ass in a pickle.... I guess from the UAX side of things there wont be so many mainline guys in the coming months JS'ing with the parking of the 73's.
In many ways you could say that mainline fired the first shot allowing UAX pilots to be denied their rightful JS..... a partial solution is for pilots on BOTH sides to be aware of other JS'ers in the gate area and do the right thing... but maybe thats too much to ask.....
Originally Posted by Flyguppy
"What the hell just happened"? For cripes sake man!! Stand up for your rights! Go talk to the Captain! Get a supervisor involved!
I commute every trip. It's pretty cut and dried from where I stand that any S.A. guy that shows up on the CMH/ORD route is going to bump me out of the jumpseat. If I'm a Republic guy and I see some jerk UA pilot that thinks he's taking the jumpseat.......GROW SOME STONES and tell him in no uncertain terms that it is your priority for the jumpseat! I can't believe that this is even an issue. Who the heck cares what the CSR says? It's the "C"aptains jumpseat. Hopefully the "c"aptain does not let a CSR dictate who gets to sit there......... They don't, do they????!!!
Look, I can tell you right now. The programming is NOT going to get fixed. UA mgmt is NOT going to spend the money on it's employees, just look at the past. It has ZILCH to do with the UA pilots or the UAL MEC. Yet, the band of regionals have decided to dork over the pilots in some sort of leverage play.
Therefore, take responsibility for your jumpseat Captains!!! I know I do.
I commute every trip. It's pretty cut and dried from where I stand that any S.A. guy that shows up on the CMH/ORD route is going to bump me out of the jumpseat. If I'm a Republic guy and I see some jerk UA pilot that thinks he's taking the jumpseat.......GROW SOME STONES and tell him in no uncertain terms that it is your priority for the jumpseat! I can't believe that this is even an issue. Who the heck cares what the CSR says? It's the "C"aptains jumpseat. Hopefully the "c"aptain does not let a CSR dictate who gets to sit there......... They don't, do they????!!!
Look, I can tell you right now. The programming is NOT going to get fixed. UA mgmt is NOT going to spend the money on it's employees, just look at the past. It has ZILCH to do with the UA pilots or the UAL MEC. Yet, the band of regionals have decided to dork over the pilots in some sort of leverage play.
Therefore, take responsibility for your jumpseat Captains!!! I know I do.
07-09-2008, 05:13 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: IAH 320 CA
Posts: 190
The UAL MEC cannot fix the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you clear on that Herc?
They informed the company 2 years ago to fix it. ALPA has gotten NO cooperation from the company on ANYTHING, let alone a programming problem for the jumpseat.
Quit saying that the UAL MEC has known this for 2 years! WE CANNOT FIX IT! Capiche?
The problem is with the mgmt at UA. Don't dork the pilots for mgmt screwups. Period!
They informed the company 2 years ago to fix it. ALPA has gotten NO cooperation from the company on ANYTHING, let alone a programming problem for the jumpseat.
Quit saying that the UAL MEC has known this for 2 years! WE CANNOT FIX IT! Capiche?
The problem is with the mgmt at UA. Don't dork the pilots for mgmt screwups. Period!
07-09-2008, 06:59 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by Rightseat Ballast
Such a typical response from United Mainline... "stupid little RJ pilots with their stupid little issues. We devoted one whole hour to listening to them, and they still weren't happy. How dare they! It is an honor to speak with us. In response, we will use big words and long sentences to convey the superior length of our johnsons. Also, we are going to deny YOU before you deny US. So there!"
UAX pilots have a legitimate issue, and these are the deaf ears it falls upon. United claims that to resolve these issues will take longer than the one month ultimatum given. Well, these issues were brought to their attention nearly two years ago. UAX pilots are being forced to pay to non-rev on their own aircraft while a mainline jumpseater is riding for free up front. That is disgusting. United then makes the classy move of saying it is the gate agents fault... well YOU hired them! How hard is it for United to print off a laminated memo that says "UAX goes first on own metal" and post it on every UAX gate desk. That is a cheap fix, and it is spelled out nicely for everyone. It would also be there for a UAX pilot to easily reference should a problem arise.
The UAX letter to UAL pilots is a bit extreme, but it was meant to be an attention getter and an educational tool. Instead of listening, the UAL MEC decides to tell their pilots to disregard the letter, and to be the bigger jerk.
UAX pilots have a legitimate issue, and these are the deaf ears it falls upon. United claims that to resolve these issues will take longer than the one month ultimatum given. Well, these issues were brought to their attention nearly two years ago. UAX pilots are being forced to pay to non-rev on their own aircraft while a mainline jumpseater is riding for free up front. That is disgusting. United then makes the classy move of saying it is the gate agents fault... well YOU hired them! How hard is it for United to print off a laminated memo that says "UAX goes first on own metal" and post it on every UAX gate desk. That is a cheap fix, and it is spelled out nicely for everyone. It would also be there for a UAX pilot to easily reference should a problem arise.
The UAX letter to UAL pilots is a bit extreme, but it was meant to be an attention getter and an educational tool. Instead of listening, the UAL MEC decides to tell their pilots to disregard the letter, and to be the bigger jerk.
07-09-2008, 07:33 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Captain
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by Flyguppy
The UAL MEC cannot fix the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you clear on that Herc?
They informed the company 2 years ago to fix it. ALPA has gotten NO cooperation from the company on ANYTHING, let alone a programming problem for the jumpseat.
Quit saying that the UAL MEC has known this for 2 years! WE CANNOT FIX IT! Capiche?
The problem is with the mgmt at UA. Don't dork the pilots for mgmt screwups. Period!
They informed the company 2 years ago to fix it. ALPA has gotten NO cooperation from the company on ANYTHING, let alone a programming problem for the jumpseat.
Quit saying that the UAL MEC has known this for 2 years! WE CANNOT FIX IT! Capiche?
The problem is with the mgmt at UA. Don't dork the pilots for mgmt screwups. Period!
07-09-2008, 09:23 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: IAH 320 CA
Posts: 190
The jumpseat priority system has nothing to do with whether you get on your company's a/c before a UA pilot.
Are you saying that if my piece of paper shows a J, and your paper shows K1, that you are going to allow me to take the jumpseat on your company's a/c?
I should certainly hope not. It is the same system as used for mainline flights.
In the end, the computer system means exactly SQUAT. It is the Captains jumpseat and he/she WILL decide who gets it. (At least thats how we do it at UA) You can't tell me you are going to let a CSR tell you who gets the jumpseat?
Are you saying that if my piece of paper shows a J, and your paper shows K1, that you are going to allow me to take the jumpseat on your company's a/c?
I should certainly hope not. It is the same system as used for mainline flights.
In the end, the computer system means exactly SQUAT. It is the Captains jumpseat and he/she WILL decide who gets it. (At least thats how we do it at UA) You can't tell me you are going to let a CSR tell you who gets the jumpseat?
07-09-2008, 10:47 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Dreamniner
Posts: 352
Originally Posted by Flyguppy
The jumpseat priority system has nothing to do with whether you get on your company's a/c before a UA pilot.
Are you saying that if my piece of paper shows a J, and your paper shows K1, that you are going to allow me to take the jumpseat on your company's a/c?
I should certainly hope not. It is the same system as used for mainline flights.
In the end, the computer system means exactly SQUAT. It is the Captains jumpseat and he/she WILL decide who gets it. (At least thats how we do it at UA) You can't tell me you are going to let a CSR tell you who gets the jumpseat?
Are you saying that if my piece of paper shows a J, and your paper shows K1, that you are going to allow me to take the jumpseat on your company's a/c?
I should certainly hope not. It is the same system as used for mainline flights.
In the end, the computer system means exactly SQUAT. It is the Captains jumpseat and he/she WILL decide who gets it. (At least thats how we do it at UA) You can't tell me you are going to let a CSR tell you who gets the jumpseat?
Please don't say that it is as simple as checking the gate. We don't have the longer turn times of mainline, and often don't park at a jetway. Some parking spots in DEN would take 10 minutes to walk to the podium and back.
Plain and simple, your MEC screwed it up two years ago. If they could get it changed then, they can get it changed back now.
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