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-   -   Tight economy and high oil prices - do you think they'll force MORE concessions? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/28590-tight-economy-high-oil-prices-do-you-think-theyll-force-more-concessions.html)

IFlyForFood 07-11-2008 05:17 PM

Interesting take, I like the $8 bucks/gallon by '09. I think ya low-balled that one, esp. if things continue going down the crapper!

FlyJSH 07-11-2008 05:22 PM

Letter from Management:

Dear Pilot Group,
As we dive into these trying times, we must all tighten our belts. As such, we are forced to cut all pay by $500 per month. However, knowing you will no longer be able to pay your rent, we have graciously erected a used circus tent just outside the perimiter fence, and have coverd the ground with fresh straw............

DeltaPaySoon 07-11-2008 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by BZNpilot248 (Post 423671)
Just curious what many of you think will happen during this "downturn" Do you think they'll try and force more wage concessions at the regional and major level? It seems they've gutted things so much since 9/11 they can't seem to go much lower. Will pilots at carriers faced with the possiblilty of Chapter 7 take deeper cuts and lower the bar more to hold onto a dying carrier? The race to the bottom seems to continue. Hopefully a much more optimistic outcome will result with less capacity and a return to profitability for most carriers. I'm not normally a doom and gloom person so I hope we can all stay strong and maintain and improve the pay and work rules wherever we are. Good luck everyone.


There are two types of airlines. Ones that have gone through bankruptcy and those that will.

For those that have gone through it, no. For those that haven't, standby.

Pontius Pilot 07-11-2008 05:56 PM

I'd rather not have a job than make less than I do right now. Maybe the pilots who are making more than me disagree...but I would not put in the hours and personal sacrifice for anything less than the approx. $1500 a month most of us new FOs make. It just ain't happening.

We're professionals, as such, entitled to some dignity in pay. I don't think your doctor would be willing to stick his lubed finger up your nether regions to check your prostate if he was making less than $20,000 a year. I spent just as much time and effort preparing for this job as a Doctor...

And yes, I love flying...and I'm not doing it for the money...but I sure as hell ain't going to do it for free. Let me define free: anything less than I'm making now. Anyone who would needs a dignity check-up. The more we give up, the more we devalue ourselves and our profession. Like my first flight instructor told me: never give free or discounted lessons: it devalues your profession. I'm sticking to that. Offer me less and I walk - its as simple as that. I'll pick tomatoes in Sinaloa before I take a pay cut.

Phuz 07-12-2008 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by Pontius Pilot (Post 423917)
Like my first flight instructor told me: never give free or discounted lessons: it devalues your profession.

Damn fine instructor. We need more like him.

cfii2007 07-12-2008 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by Phuz (Post 424139)
Damn fine instructor. We need more like him.

I have absolutely 0 respect for CFI's that teach for free.....

BZNpilot248 07-12-2008 10:38 AM

That was one of the biggest pet peeves I had as a CFI was the pay issue. At the large 141 "pilot factory" I worked at most instructors put a cursory .3 pre/post charge on the billing which I thought was rediculous. We were required to be there for the students half an hour before their launch, though most instructor weren't or were finishing up with the prior student and many instructors didn't even walk outside for the students preflight so many instructors did only do about .3 pre/post. I hated it as a student when my instructor breifed me on what we were doing for the flight as I was running the before start check and said see you next time on shut down - when I'd actually TEACH before hand and be available for the hours I was SUPPOSED to teach - students would look at me like I was trying to rip them off when I'd put down .7 pre/post because they were so used to seeing .3 from other instructors. - which was common especially for primary students. So many instructors were always trying to give their students a break (which I understand - I was a poor college student too) but if we want any integrity in our profession we have to advocate our true worth, even as a CFI.

DYNASTY HVY 07-13-2008 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by DeltaPaySoon (Post 423892)
There are two types of airlines. Ones that have gone through bankruptcy and those that will.

For those that have gone through it, no. For those that haven't, standby.

And some who have gone through it before will possibly do it again.:eek:

andy171773 07-13-2008 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by BZNpilot248 (Post 424253)
That was one of the biggest pet peeves I had as a CFI was the pay issue. At the large 141 "pilot factory" I worked at most instructors put a cursory .3 pre/post charge on the billing which I thought was rediculous. We were required to be there for the students half an hour before their launch, though most instructor weren't or were finishing up with the prior student and many instructors didn't even walk outside for the students preflight so many instructors did only do about .3 pre/post. I hated it as a student when my instructor breifed me on what we were doing for the flight as I was running the before start check and said see you next time on shut down - when I'd actually TEACH before hand and be available for the hours I was SUPPOSED to teach - students would look at me like I was trying to rip them off when I'd put down .7 pre/post because they were so used to seeing .3 from other instructors. - which was common especially for primary students. So many instructors were always trying to give their students a break (which I understand - I was a poor college student too) but if we want any integrity in our profession we have to advocate our true worth, even as a CFI.

Smells like a SFB .3 to me. I hated that as well, so stupid. There are so many things wrong with that place.

121PyLut 07-13-2008 02:52 PM

...the only good place to be right now, sadly, is in the execs. seat...

...it's a crime that management keeps asking for cuts here and there from everyone but themselves...


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