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Old 09-22-2016, 08:09 AM
  #9441  
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Originally Posted by flyingpuppy View Post
So I read "industry leading pay" on Envoy and PSA websites. Just want to clarify that PDT has the highest 1st year pay
Envoy: $37.90
PSA: $38.50
PDT: $38.80
Plus up to $20,000 bonus for all 3.

Envoy's flow - contract but will take longer than PDT if hired now
PSA's flow can be STOPPED by management
PDT's flow CANNOT be stopped for the duration it is stated in the contract. I think 10 years.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Don't forget Envoy hourly pay may be "slightly" lower (first year), that changes second year, but they get More paid vacation days, Higher per-diem than both carriers, better 401K match than PSA, not sure what PDT match is. Different medical benefit costs which can be a big factor. There is much more to overall compensation than just the hourly rate differences of a few cents. We all have different OT pay percentages and all that sort of stuff too IIRC. 1st year Pay rates alone are misleading.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:11 AM
  #9442  
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Originally Posted by RyanP View Post
Don't forget Envoy hourly pay may be "slightly" lower (first year), that changes second year, but they get More paid vacation days, Higher per-diem than both carriers, better 401K match than PSA, not sure what PDT match is. Different medical benefit costs which can be a big factor. There is much more to overall compensation than just the hourly rate differences of a few cents. We all have different OT pay percentages and all that sort of stuff too IIRC. 1st year Pay rates alone are misleading.
Time spent on reserve plays an important part as well. If you are only getting guarantee for the first few years, you will make a lot less than someone that gets 85-90 hours a month as a line holder.
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:01 AM
  #9443  
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Originally Posted by PSA help View Post
Time spent on reserve plays an important part as well. If you are only getting guarantee for the first few years, you will make a lot less than someone that gets 85-90 hours a month as a line holder.
Or more if it's someone like me who only wants to work 12 days /month and credit 65 hours.
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Old 09-22-2016, 10:35 AM
  #9444  
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Would it be a bad move to work here if I have been working at 9E for 5 months? AA has always been One of my top choices but 9E is a really good place to work also.. The flow agreement is really tempting since our passing rate at interviews with Delta is only 40%.

How would the commute be from MIA to the PDT bases?
How soon the medical benefits go in effect?
How many days off is average for line holders and reserve per month?
Is training AQP?
Any plans for EFB's in the near future?

Thank you

Last edited by ebuhoner; 09-22-2016 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 09-22-2016, 10:51 AM
  #9445  
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Originally Posted by daOldMan View Post
All flows can be stopped. They just have to declare bankruptcy at your particular WO, and... POOF... it is stopped. Or, move your airplanes to another carrier and move you over there.

If I were a new hire at PDT, I would be concerned about the fact that I would not flow for 15 years unless growth occurs (which it will not), and the airplanes that PDT flies will not be around more than 10 years. 50 seat jets only have a life span of a few more years.

Growth can only occur if there are pilots to support it. PDT will be replacing the Dash with 145's, and is continuing to struggle to do so. It is unlikely that there will be enough pilots to actually increase the overall fleet numbers at PDT. That will mean no increased flow numbers.
Oh, please. This is the same guy that said the flow wouldn't exist at all in any capacity in 2017. Sorry chicken little, the sky is not falling here at Piedmont.

The Dash replacement seems to be going quite well. Our 10th -145 is scheduled to arrive today. Roughly 1/4 of all Piedmont pilots are now listed on the -145 roster as of the latest permanent bid. Sure, the training department is slightly backed up, but new instructors are becoming available weekly. Once instructor staffing rights itself, the training backlog will start to diminish.

We're currently ~10 pilots from achieving the 4 pilot flow/month. Let's take some numbers and math real quick. Currently, we are flowing around #90 on the seniority list. If a new hire came in today as #466, he/she would have 10 years to flow if every single pilot in front of them decided to exercise their option to flow. We know that's unrealistic. When the flow jumps up to 4/mo-which is all but inevitable at this point-that number comes down to the 7 year range. These numbers certainly aren't ideal, and they're definitely not the numbers that our recruiters are advertising. But, it's not 15 years. That's a flat out lie.

I'll give you credit when you say that growth can only occur if there's pilots to support it. But the support is there, and classes are growing. Yeah, the flow can be stopped by AAG. They can also decide to liquidate all of their WOs and tack us on the bottom of the seniority list. I doubt either of these situations happens in the near future.
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:57 AM
  #9446  
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Originally Posted by TheWrightStuff View Post
Oh, please. This is the same guy that said the flow wouldn't exist at all in any capacity in 2017. Sorry chicken little, the sky is not falling here at Piedmont.

The Dash replacement seems to be going quite well. Our 10th -145 is scheduled to arrive today. Roughly 1/4 of all Piedmont pilots are now listed on the -145 roster as of the latest permanent bid. Sure, the training department is slightly backed up, but new instructors are becoming available weekly. Once instructor staffing rights itself, the training backlog will start to diminish.

We're currently ~10 pilots from achieving the 4 pilot flow/month. Let's take some numbers and math real quick. Currently, we are flowing around #90 on the seniority list. If a new hire came in today as #466, he/she would have 10 years to flow if every single pilot in front of them decided to exercise their option to flow. We know that's unrealistic. When the flow jumps up to 4/mo-which is all but inevitable at this point-that number comes down to the 7 year range. These numbers certainly aren't ideal, and they're definitely not the numbers that our recruiters are advertising. But, it's not 15 years. That's a flat out lie.

I'll give you credit when you say that growth can only occur if there's pilots to support it. But the support is there, and classes are growing. Yeah, the flow can be stopped by AAG. They can also decide to liquidate all of their WOs and tack us on the bottom of the seniority list. I doubt either of these situations happens in the near future.
And there you have it folks. Piedmont's "5 year flow" isn't what it's cracked up to be.

Can't wait of more people to tell me I'm spreading misinformation. Your own pilots are doing the math and even they see it.
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:02 PM
  #9447  
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Originally Posted by ebuhoner View Post
Would it be a bad move to work here if I have been working at 9E for 5 months? AA has always been One of my top choices but 9E is a really good place to work also.. The flow agreement is really tempting since our passing rate at interviews with Delta is only 40%.

How would the commute be from MIA to the PDT bases?
phl might not be too bad, any others would be double leg

Originally Posted by ebuhoner View Post
How soon the medical benefits go in effect?
hmm not sure, think it might be a month or so?

Originally Posted by ebuhoner View Post
How many days off is average for line holders and reserve per month?
line holders 12, maybe 13 if you're lucky on the dash

Originally Posted by ebuhoner View Post
Is training AQP?
yes it is

Originally Posted by ebuhoner View Post
Any plans for EFB's in the near future?

Thank you
hahaha, thats been 'coming soon' since like march
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:05 PM
  #9448  
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Originally Posted by TheWrightStuff View Post
Oh, please. This is the same guy that said the flow wouldn't exist at all in any capacity in 2017. Sorry chicken little, the sky is not falling here at Piedmont.

The Dash replacement seems to be going quite well. Our 10th -145 is scheduled to arrive today. Roughly 1/4 of all Piedmont pilots are now listed on the -145 roster as of the latest permanent bid. Sure, the training department is slightly backed up, but new instructors are becoming available weekly. Once instructor staffing rights itself, the training backlog will start to diminish.

We're currently ~10 pilots from achieving the 4 pilot flow/month. Let's take some numbers and math real quick. Currently, we are flowing around #90 on the seniority list. If a new hire came in today as #466, he/she would have 10 years to flow if every single pilot in front of them decided to exercise their option to flow. We know that's unrealistic. When the flow jumps up to 4/mo-which is all but inevitable at this point-that number comes down to the 7 year range. These numbers certainly aren't ideal, and they're definitely not the numbers that our recruiters are advertising. But, it's not 15 years. That's a flat out lie.

I'll give you credit when you say that growth can only occur if there's pilots to support it. But the support is there, and classes are growing. Yeah, the flow can be stopped by AAG. They can also decide to liquidate all of their WOs and tack us on the bottom of the seniority list. I doubt either of these situations happens in the near future.
I said that the flow will not exist under current circumstances. The circumstances have changed. With Kirby gone, AAG has decided to concentrate on their WO, and stepped up their game.

It will be interesting to see if they concentrate everything on the WO, and what they will do with the contract carriers.
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:51 PM
  #9449  
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The flow is nice to have in your back pocket. Treat it like a last resort (a pretty nice last resort I might add). If all else fails you have it to fall back on. In the meantime keep your DAL and UAL apps updated.
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:52 PM
  #9450  
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Originally Posted by GoNova View Post
So if you are a new hire soon you'll be around #475, and say the airline grows like it plans too to 600, very possible with almost $60,000 for people hopping regionals and $54,000 for new hires on top of 1000 hour upgrades and flow, so definitely possible to grow to that number. Once the hiring is straight in to the jet (for the must fly a sjs guys) very soon and announce a new base to attract a different region that growth could be even larger. Piedmont has already announced if they can get the pilots the jets will keep coming.

Now you're looking at 5 per month / 60 a year, so if # 90 is around where you flow and you are 125 from the bottom there are 385 flowing in front of you, let's say 50 just 50 which is only 13% (small percentage) moves on to a major/mid level/corporate/terminated/whatever that puts 335 above you and a little over 5 and a half years.

So in conclusion it is realistic if you decide to work for Piedmont you can flow a little over 5 years, now if they grow even more and somehow more than 13% of the pilots flowing above you (extremely possible) decide to move on the number will be 5 or less. You're also looking at a place where you can bid captain as fast as possible and become eligible quicker to move on outside the flow. Just saying
Hooray! Someone gets it!
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