Who said ASA has nothing about Furlough in the contract???
 

Now i know absolutely nothing official has been said about furloughing at ASA. But it has crossed my mind a couple times lately, and a couple people have said on these boards that there is nothing about Furlough written in our current contract. :confused:

Please correct me if that was never said, but section 23 is aptly titled Furlough & Recall. Section 23 has plenty of literature on Furloughing in inverse seniority order, recall, and related matters.

You are correct. ASA's contract does have a lot to say about furlough. I think that what a lot of people are referring to is that a number of the people likely to be affected by a furlough would not be covered by the No Furlough clause, as it only applied to those on the seniority list at the time of contract signing (November).

The “NO” furlough clause? Is this a clause saying that they can’t be furloughed? Now that makes absolutely no sense……………………if a company needs to lay off employees in order to survive I highly doubt a contract that restricts Mgmnt hands that much will ever hold up.

Explain.........?

Is ASA losing a lot of the redeemed Freedom MCO flying?

A la Comair JFK stuff?

Wheres the No Furlough clause?

ASA does indeed have a "no furlough" clause in our contract. It states that no one on the seniority list on the date of signing may be furloughed except for a specific list of circumstances like war, the company getting shut down by the FAA, etc. There are about +/- 150 FOs who were hired after the date of signing who are not covered.

The no furlough clause is Section 1.J. You can read it here:

ASA Contract 2007

9e also has a no furlough clause.....theoretically nobody hired before May 1, 1999 can be furlughed. However in the fine print it says they can be due to issues "beyond the control of the company." Does ****ty management count as beyond their control?

If you are an ASA pilot (or just click the link in the post above) look in the contract at "Recognition and Scope", go down to "Fragmentation" and read #9 (Also referred to as Section 1.F.9). It states that:

"...the Company will not furlough any pilot whose name is on the seniority list on the effective date of this Agreement except in circumstances over which the Company has no control..."

The section then goes on to describe a number of situations that define when the Company has no control:

-A natural disaster
-Grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency
-Reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical material due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations
-Revocation of the Company’s operating certificate
-War emergency
-Delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery

Now, the third bullet there looks kind of fishy due to the current oil crisis. However, the section goes on further to say : The term “circumstances over
which the Company has no control” will not include the price of fuel or other
supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, or the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations

So, in my opinion, this portion of the contracts protects people on the seniority list as of late November 2007. That's good for them, but right now doesn't do much for the rest of the people hired since then, because the contract states that the company doesn't have to offer furlough to pilots on probation; they can just fire them (AirTran...?) Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but they are allowed...

So what happens if they fuel supply dwindles because Delta doesn't want to pay for the fuel to operate all your aircraft. Does that count as a reduction in flying operations due to commercial suppliers being unable to supply sufficient fuel?

Not trying to be negative, but it just seems weird that the company would sign a contract with a no-furlough clause and have no way out of it. They had 5 years to think it up didn't they?

Mesa's DAL numbers are horrible... I cannot imagine how they will be flying for DAL come next July. They are consistently the worst performing regional in our network.

vtbvtdk, thanks for the clarification.

There are lots of loop holes in every contract and if the company needs to furlough then they will and can find a way. There's no way that Jerry and Friends would ever sign a contract that didn't have loop holes. Smoke and Mirrors...............slide of hand.............whatever you want to call it.

Loop holes, if I was an ASA pilot I wouldn't put any stock in this clause.

O ok, thanks for pointing that out. But I wouldnt trust that clause too much.

If a company needs to furlough or reduce numbers, they will do so as much as they see fit to keep the airline "viable"....
This being proven by numerous instances in the contract with wording such as " The company understands" and "The company concedes", simple fact is that it's written by lawyers so as to be changed in the future by the same.

I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. SkyWest Inc does not do business in such an underhanded, screw the workers way.

If ASA needs to furlough, they will furlough, not fire like Airtrash.

This doesn't say that the company cannot furlough, just not the people hired before Nov 20. That leaves roughly 180 pilots unprotected. Obviously anyone hired in the future is also not protected. It doesn't tie the company's hands, just protects jobs. Wouldn't this clause hold up in court???

Well, it doesn't say they CAN'T furlough, it just says what they can and can't furlough for...but it does a pretty half assed job at that. Leaves a lot open for interpretation unfortunately.

This is standard ALPA boilerplate language. It is in virtually every union contract. However, I would encourage you to be familiar with the term "Force Majuere." It's French for "You're screwed either way."

Actually, they learned a lot from the Delta 9/11 "forced manure" event, which is why the line about fuel prices and costs and such are there. Notice also that it says "war emergency" and not "act of war". "War Emergency" means Congress needs to declare it. Delta tried to say 9/11 was an "act of war" against the US and thus gave force majure to furlough.

Oh, btw, D-ALPA won their court case on force majure and the judge ordered the pilots

Yes and no. The FM-II guys were brought back because the Judge said they were furloughed illegally, (about 200 guys.) The FM-I guys, (about 1500,) were found to be furloughed legally, and thus I spent 4 1/2 years on the street.

I guess it is a good thing my hire date was Nov 19th then!! WHEW

I love this forum.

So - let me this straight - attacking an airline that hasn't "yet" announced furloughs.

Seems like there is enough guys on the sideline just waiting to see some more guys hit the street. Impressive.

Who is attacking ASA?

I think he might be talking about my Airtran comment, not ASA. If anyone is offended, do not be. Just the first example that popped into my head.

As for the furlough/no furlough coverage, I am simply quoting what is in the contract. In no way do I believe this is a golden blanket that protects people. Management is going to do what they want, and then worry about the consequences later. The fact is, the management at ASA seems to be okay with having a large pilot group. They are staying ready in case any flying becomes available, and would like to keep their "Never Furloughed Anyone" statement in the lesson plan for Indoc Day 1.

That said, this is an unprecedented time in the airline industry. Who knows what will happen...?

To respond to the original question of the thread: There is a clause in the contract, yes.


...I just hope it doesn't come to testing whether or not it holds up.

I am praying it doesnt come to that....

SH is saying in recurrent that there will be no furloughs. And they just created CRJ FO positions equal to every ATR displacement, so that event won't result in layoffs. I think everybody will be working min guarantee come Fall, but we won't furlough.