Feel so stupid sometimes
 

So, I work for TSA. I can't complain too badly, I was hired out of a Cessna 172 with 750 hours into a jet and have had a pretty good run for the 14 months I've been here. However, with 10 birds going back to Eagle and the downsizing, etc, I am just waiting for my furlough notice. When I get it, I don't even know if I'll ever be called back because the 50 seaters are being phased out. I wouldn't be surprised of TSA as a brand gets phased out and any growth occurs on the GoJet side.

Meanwhile, a friend of mine works for Comair, and switched from the CRJ-200 to the -700/-900 and received an appropriate pay raise and it looks like he'll be escaping the furlough too. He was hired with Comair AFTER I was hired at TSA.

Why did I stay at TSA? I should have gotten a few hundred hours jet time and switched to a better company. My future would be looking a lot brighter right now.

Gotta stay positive....

You can't fault yourself for this...so don't be down on yourself. You did what you thought was best at the time and things changed. All we can do is make informed decisions based on the information we have at the time. You couldn't foresee this downturn.

If you look, you can probably find some places are still hiring...or maybe you just weather the bad times/possible furlough and get recalled? Do what you feel is right for you - but don't beat yourself up about it. Keep on keepin' on.

You have discovered one of the major differences of working for a wholly owned airline, or simple subcontractor.

Nobody here will fault you for taking a jet job when offered one. The only advice I would have given would to have been very selective about who you wanted to work for. Just about everybody was hiring for the last several years. Historically, the wholly owned airlines have been somewhat more secure to work at... while none is ever really secure, some do have better records than others, and they are typically the wholly owned ones.

So, if the time comes that you DO have to make a move, focus on the wholly owned ones. Don't pass up a job if offered because they are few and far between right now, but focus on an airline with a good track record.

Then again, wholly-owned has its drawbacks. Take someone hired at Comair in 2003. Today they are still a year (or three) from any possible upgrade. About the same (maybe worse) at Eagle or ASA.

If that same person went to CHQ, SKW, PCL, or Freedum in 2003, would they still be a junior FO... or would they be a lineholder captain by now?

That rapid level of turnover should tell you about the quality of life working for a slave/indentured servitude type of corporation. There is a reason those companies have such shorter upgrade times...

I wouldn't beat yourself up about this. You never know what is going to happen at any given airline. Every airline has it's ups and downs. Even if you chose to go to a "good" regional (such as horizon), it might have not given you security. I still truely believe having a great career is highly based on luck. All you can do is inform yourself of the information that is out there, and make your best guesses for career moves.

As a former waterskiier myself, I can tell you that what looks good now, might not look so great in a month. I remember TSA running upgrades on the J41, and then a month later they decide to park them. Air Hulas seems to make many spur of the moment changes and it drastically affects the pilot group. Since things change so quickly, some people have been lead to quick upgrades while for others it has lead to furlough just off of IOE.

That's true. I should have said "would someone hired in 2003 by CHQ, SKW, etc still be a junior FO at CHQ or SKW, or would they be a junior FO at JBlue, Southwest, or UPS (or maybe furloughed UAL or CAL) by now?"

I chose to avoid the slave route and now I have to grumble about the 8-year upgrades at my regional of choice. STBM...

And that would be why certain mainline carriers have expressed rather large amounts of interest in terminating their relationships with aforementioned contracted regional carriers in favor of their own, in-house operations.

(DL, F8.)

Maybe there's a link between quality of life and quality of operation that has yet to be thoroughly 'quantified' and 'analyzed' by the MBAs-in-command.

Gota learn to live with regrets....who knows what the next day will bring. We all feel stupid sometime just for the simple fact that we have this flying bug.

So what, your friend is now going to fly a CRJ9, who cares? Still same crappy pay but with the extra FA. You still have a job flying a regional jet what is there to complain about there are thousands on the street right now. There are many who wished they would have done things differently knowing what they know now but flying is flying.

Even if we all had the crystal ball it would still be a tough decision. About 10 years ago Delta and United were the highest paying pilot jobs and UPS and Fed Ex were quite a bit lower. 2 years ago Express Jet was one of the best regionals to work for and now they are about to furlough 1/4 to 1/3 of their pilots. Even Horizon which is considered a better company and wholly owned is also getting ready to furlough. Mesa, which is commonly referred as the worst is hiring and all of their pilots are still there. There is no guarentee and the 'best' company to work for changes constantly.

I think you should just wait it out to see what happens where you are at. Unless you know for sure you will be gone, there is always a chance that you will still have a job. You were smart to try to stay at your first company and try to upgrade faster, that is the goal, PIC time and on to the majors to start the gamble all over again.

That's why I really doubt people will be willing to fly for the majors now. It's just amazing how people I know, most are saying they'll fly corp/fractional/cargo before flying for the majors now. Some are even considering leaving the country all together. One guy is looking at an A330/340 operation in Asia where like everything is paid and CA oportunity in a few years. The current economy and the exciting candidates for the presidency don't help either.

all i can say is wow, dont have time for a history lesson.

The world of aviation is filled with "what ifs". Take your shot, if it misses, take a step back, re-aim and shoot again. Remember that monster name K-Mart from the sixties? Who would have thought a down home country boy from Arkansas could whip their butt? All of life is a gamble and particularly few of us win every time.

If you get furloughed, regroup and look for the best opportunity at the time. It will likely not look anything like any of the ones that were available six months ago or six months from now.

My friend, looks like you're a young guy, been in the industry just a couple of years; Boy do you have A LOT to learn.

I flew for the regionals, I heard of great, profesional pilots get stuck there, for life. Then heard of some people who didn't follow SOPs, didn't do checklists, bust a couple of 121 check-rides end up at places like Fedex, UPS, NJI, SouthWest. What I'm trying to tell you is that unlike other industries, we have little control over our destiny. Most of the time we have to take the first regional job that is offered to us, followed by the first major/corporate job that is offered to us. Can't be switching companies because we feel the need to build up our seniority.

I've heard many, MANY pilots said "should've done that", myself included......

It's all a crapshoot man. We were in the same class, I was the only one to bail. Now I'm looking at a furlough too. No regrets. The QOL improvments alone were worth it.

The point is this, you can't predict anything in this industry. Think about how fast EVERYONE was hiring back when we started at TSA. This continued until the end of last year and everybody went from hiring like mad, to furloughing. Feast or famine.

Thanks for the views.

I do have some plans in the works that will allow me to keep moving the football down the field until this industry swings around.

Only time will tell.....

You haven't lived a full life until you've lived a life full of regret.

bryris, i feel for you man. if i had taken a job at eagle, i'd still be a lineholder AND i'd be based at home. but i went for the quick upgrade time at tsa :confused: i'm 3 months behind you, so i will get that f-notice before you will. remember, you're not an airline pilot until you've been furloughed, divorced, and bankrupt :D:(

I read somewhere that the average airline pilot is furloughed an average of 3 times during their career. That doesn't take into account any strikes or substantial pay cuts. So take it all in stride and save up for the hard times and enjoy the good times. Worrying or regretting doesn't help you now.

Anyone with experience in this industry CAN forsee the downturn...it will always come around eventually, the boom times never last for too long.

Before you make a move (especially one that will involve giving up seniority), contemplate the consequences if the music stops at the worst moment. I actually gapped my employment between two airlines by a couple of weeks to preserve a pre-planned vacation, because my wife insisted. Naturally I didn't sleep so good until my class date...always a little worried about what I might see on CNN.

That's a fairly substantial increase in the "odds," wouldn't you say? :D

At the end of the day, the majors still top out much higher than the fracs, even under concessionary contracts; the really top-end corporate gigs are almost impossible to obtain unless you know someone; UPS isn't hiring (and ANC is a ridiculous commute); and when FedEx starts hiring, it's Hong Kong or Paris as a junior FO (and junior CA). ACMI cargo/charter gigs result in 3-4 weeks on the road at a pop.

Flying in Asia or the Mid East may pay the bills...but at what cost? I don't think most folks want to raise their kids in Doha, Dubai, etc...half a world away from friends and family...regardless of compensation--which is solid but not outstanding. If you haven't spent time in Doha and/or Dubai, you may not fully grasp the culture shock involved with living there....or in the Far East, for that matter.

So for comparative QOL, I think the majors will always be a fairly popular option.

the odds that one of them will file sexual harrasment against ya is twice as high as well.

Don't beat yourslef up, man. I am in the same boat at ExpressJet. When I was hired a little more than a year ago, we were forecast to hire 800 Pilots this year, and had something like $300 million in the bank.

I'm going to try and get my money back on this Crystal Ball....

Whats wrong with doha?! haha... Some could make it in Dubai, but after being stationed there for 2 years I couldn't EVER do it again... Think about your long term goals. For me my family and friends are very important to me, therefor I could never move to the other side of the world... Sure Dubai is nice..... TO VISIT, but I could never accept that lifestyle as my own....

And to the original nature of this thread, I feel your pain. I was the very first class that was cancelled (At TSA). I was called a week before the class started, and an hour before I was going to leave my current job... Talk about great timing for a bad thing.... I also passed up interviews other places to interview at ASA and Mesaba and am now jobless... but the silver lining is at least I didnt get furloughed!! haha

Not trying to be a jerk, but maybe someone else might benefit from this. Even if you are hired and it's before a class date, don't pass on interviews. One of two things will happen: 1. You either get hired at the second company (which you can decline if you prefer Company A) or 2. You don't get hired by company B and you continue Company A. It's this very example why you go to all interviews.

Stryker sorry it happened to you the way it did at least you got the call before you quit your current job. Best of luck man!

Thanks... No I definitely learned a lesson here... Always take an interview if offered even if you have that original job.... I dont really mind continuing to instruct for a little while (gonna go back to school in the meantime), but I could be in a better place had I accepted that interview... Lesson Learned....