Why?

Do both not consist of elected representatives and people they represent?

Why? Because I worked on the aviation subcommitee in DC and saw congress and lawmakers up close and personal as well as ALPA.

That's not answering the question. What you just said is equivilant to answering a question with "becuase I said so."

Great, you worked on the subcommitee, but the question was was about elected reps and the people they represent.

Try to elaborate next time please.

Thank you.

I'll keep the elaboration simple. Outside of an aspiring "model" to use, there are vast differences from personel, procedure and propaganda. You don't need to "pick at it". ALPA is what it is......period. I'm VERY clear as to what it IS NOT.

You simply asked why and I simply answered. I have experince in both avenues.

Answering the question with experience is not the same as saying, "because I said so"......I truly hope you know the difference.

It's always good to have a bit more background in what you did, including your experience aside from I did it.

I'm not gouging you, just asking for a persepective. It's the same as me saying I built an airplane but failing to mention it was a model airplane. You don't know to what extent you mean.

I'm not the one that asked the question, just one seeking more clarification as to the answer. In this case you just said you worked for the commitees but did not expand on why they are not the same ( the senate/congress as opposed to ALPA)

Unfortunetely most of us were not told about this issue until it was unanimously decided upon by the MEC. There were numerous opportunities such as recurrent and upgrade classes during which this could have been brought to our attention (I sat through an entire lunch period with the union and this was never discussed) I agree that is the responsibility of ours to voice our opinion, but it is hard to voice and opinion when the topic for discussion is concealed in the way that it was. I dont mind a fight, and I dont mind losing a fight, but I would at least like to know that a fight is happening before it is declared over.

Ok, what about my comparison to a city council? Of did you work on your city council as well?:p

You can always check the agenda items of the Executive Board and Executive Council via the My ALPA link at ALPA.org.

Or you can just sign up for all the blastmails at the same website. A lot of this was out before the voting even commenced.

By the way, this was not something decided by MECs. It was decided by all the individual reps.

I havent talked to a single pilot that was for this, besides a union rep, so there is obviously a communication error, which is strictly a union rep issue, not a pilot issue. Not saying that I am totally against it, but it is the representives responsibilty to keep us informed on the happenings of the union, and their resposibility to include us all in the medium in which this is represented. I shouldnt have to go SEARCH for the issues. I pay for this and it should be afforded to me and rest of the group. This was back doored no matter how you look at it. Also the thing that bugs me was that there was no statute of limitation that was placed on this issue, which means this was going to be permanent, which should require a vote of the masses, not a personal conviction by the "courageous union reps:

No, I'm sorry, you don't pay for people to spoon feed you issues. You are supposed to take an active role in furthering your career.

You pay taxes, but do you expect your lawmakers to personally seek out your opinion every time they vote on a bill?

There are many methods to see what's going on. You're just not taking advantage of them.

Its not the case of spoon feeding issues and I have never insinuated that. There are plenty of issues that I am aware of and some that I am not, but this issue was back doored from day 1 and was not a simple case of trying to change the length of a particular overnight, or a change in training. This was a major change to the constitution and would a affect a large number of pilots. The only people that seemed to know about it were union people, and they werent talking about it. As for your lawmakers connection, I expect them to seek out the opinion of the masses when voting on an issue that creates large permanent changes, but you are right in the fact that none of them do, which doesnt make it right however.

I am for one am very pro union, but to hint that none of us union members are permitted to dissent against our representitives is counterproductive and borderline tyrannical. Heres an idea for ALPA on how to get more dues money. Open up negotiations and get us all better contracts, and there is your extra money, or if you want us to pay more dues, ask for it, dont behind the backs of others to get it.