For Colgan Pilots
 

To My Fellow Colgan Pilots:

It was one year ago this week that we fell four votes short of electing ALPA as our collective bargaining representative. Over that past year, every one of us has faced a moment in which we had no one to call to help solve a problem with management, felt alone in our pursuit to build a sustainable lifestyle at Colgan or watched Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. make decisions affecting Colgan pilots without hearing our collective voice. Those moments have caused all of us to think repeatedly about the lost opportunities of last year.

We have already begun a new effort to secure ALPA as our bargaining representative. We believe that ALPA is the best possible collective bargaining representative for the pilots of Colgan Air. The resources that they can provide to us and their influence on all aspects of our industry make the choice clear.

Many of you have already seen various ALPA pamphlets and Authorization for Representation cards at your base, or spoken with an Organizing Committee volunteer about the drive. ALPA has pledged their total support for our efforts, but building the foundation for a successful election and a unified pilot group must begin with the efforts of Colgan pilots like you and me.

Those of us signed below, along with many others, have pledged our time and efforts to ensure that all of your questions about representation are answered. Please contact me or any of the OC members listed below if you have not received an Authorization for Representation card, have any questions about representation or ALPA, or would like to have materials sent to you. If you would like to assist in the drive, please let one of us know.

We will also be hosting informational events with ALPA pilot volunteers on Monday, August 25 in IAD and Tuesday, August 26 in IAH. We hope you can join us.

We encourage you to learn all you can about ALPA and the many roles it plays in our industry. And remember: It is OUR Careers, OUR Choice, OUR Union.

In unity,


Captain John Antoniades
First Officer Charles Poston
Captain Mark Atchue
Captain Mark Que
Captain Benjamin Bray
Captain Vincent Rainaldo
Captain Scott Gates
First Officer David Schwartz
Captain Matt Green
Captain Mark Segaloff
First Officer Geoffrey Huppe
Captain Michael Wheeler
First Officer Kyra Ko
First Officer Mitchell White
Captain Matthew Malone
First Officer Carla Widman
Captain Timothy Newkirk
First Officer Todd Yero
Captain Barry Nomann
Captain Rizwan Zahid
Captain Brian Oakes
Captain Joe Zuffoletto

Fantastic! Go get 'em!

Good work. Thanks for your efforts. Vote ALPA guys. There is no sense in having two pilot unions under one company. That defies the definition of unity.

Vote ALPA.

Everyone wish us luck!! Let's not screw this up again fellow Colgan pilots.

mailed my card in last week.

OH boy here we go again. I am just really worried about something. Being stapled at the bottom of pinnacle's list when and if we get ALPA. Someone tell me it will not happen. It looks like according to ALPAS merger policy the numbers are close where we would be stapled and if they combine companies a lot of our captains will become Fo's again.

Matt Malone..........hes funny

Many people have posted this. We cannot get stapled because of the transportation bill sign by President Bush last December. If you are still scared vote for Teamsters.

I keep hearing this, and honestly I don't know where it's coming from. Personally, I don't think that most people have actually read the ALPA merger policy. No where in there does it say anything about a staple, instead it outlines a process for finding a fair and equitable solution. For any Colgan Pilot's who haven't read the merger please check it out. It's only 4 pages, but if you just want to skip to the chase check out Secton G.

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/A...d=506&TabId=93


I think it's also worth noting that we don't seem anywhere near actually merging anytime soon.

agreed.....

Thank you! Sounds good. Oh and I ain't signing crap until I get a free meal and a lanyard. You can keep your stickers and magazines. When is the food coming? I am fat and hungry.

So I filled out a ALPA card being told it was so we could have the right to vote. I also filled out a IBT card but am now being told it basically said I was Voting for IBT. I think it would be great to see a union help out our company... but I will wait to make the most informed decision I can. Can anyone shed light on what that IBT card people filled out really meant?

You didn't have enough time to actually read what you signed? :eek:

Yes, the IBT letter you signed is basically a vote. If you took the time to read the small paragraph at the bottom, it says:

"...to conduct and investigation and a representation election and/or to represent me for all purposes under the Railway Act..."

The ALPA card says:

"...to conduct and investigation and representation election pursuant to the Railway Labor Act and, upon winning, to represent me for purposes..."

I think it's extremely shady of Teamsters to do this, probably knowing that a lot of pilots won't bother to read that small paragraph. That's the first indication to me right there of a shady union I don't want representing me.

And it's exactly like what the Steel Workers union pulled on our flight attendants last year. I mean cmon what the heck is a steel workers union doing representing flight attendants? We're not even flight attendants, but any of us would agree that AFA would've been a smarter choice for them. So why would any one of us think that a trucking union would be better for us pilots? Are we really dumb enough to let the same thing happen to us?

I am so annoyed of hearing about this ******* staple job... I can't believe my fellow pilots would be so stupid not to know the law and think that this would ever even happen. None of those douchebags over at EWR or even Houston are researching facts for themselves but merely basing all their opinions on PURE HEARSAY. Way to decide your futures!

What's most annoying is the fact that a lot of pilots DID fall for this IBT card scheme.. they have no idea they signed a vote. Seriously, they didn't even have to read a lot, it's ONE sentence. This is especially frustrating given that a good percentage of them are still undecided.

And dues? OK, so Teamsters dues is like ~1.5%, and ALPA is like ~1.9%. Based on a first year FO guarantee (since the majority of FOs are still on their first year), the difference of .4% comes out to 6 bucks per month. Congrats, you just saved 6 bucks on dues and got yourself a ****tier union in the process!

Ok I will stop this rant before I give myself a stroke. All I ask of my fellow pilots is to some factual research!!! :)

Well put. Here's a trend I've been seeing over the last few years. Very low time pilot, first real job out of high school/college, gets on at regional of his choice in the last 1-2 years. Lives in this fantasy land that regionals are still stepping stones and that as soon as he gets 1000 tpic (because he WILL pass upgrade as soon as he meets the bare upgrade mins) Fedex and UPS will be sending recruiters to his house begging him to come over to the cargo side. And since he got on no problem at the first regional he applied to, it must be the same at the majors. So I'm only going to be here 2 years, why do i need to waste $10/month on a union? I mean the management was kind enough to trust me with these shiny new $20 million airplanes! Plus I heard from a Captain that we would be stapled to the bottom, so it must be true!:rolleyes:

What are you, in management? This is obviously a rumor started just to defeat ALPA.

That is just the word on the street. Whatever though where's my free food.

Are you telling me they don't really do that?!!?!?


I was given a Card being told it was simply requesting the right to vote, I remember reading it and being confused but i was assured it was only requesting the right to vote and not actually giving them permission to represent me. what are the percentages that it will take for one to beat out the other unions? say it goes 33%Alpa, 33%IBT and 33% want no union. in a situation like that... what would the outcome be? or maybe say.. 40% alpa and 40% IBT and only 20% no union?


and btw does anyone have the email address for IBT where I can tell them I revoke there right to represent me from that damn card I signed?

From the Teamsters website:

Due to high Internet virus activity, we are no longer accepting website feedback via email.

This is the union they want representing us? High internet virus activity? As opposed to non-internet virus activity? Maybe their members are the ones trying to infect them...

Now, hopefully you follow through and send a letter.

Teamsters Local 747
1419 FM 1960 Road
Houston, TX 77073

International Brotherhood of Teamsters
25 Louisiana Ave, NW
Washington, DC 20001

What our pilots need to understand is that the Colgan ALPA Organizing Committee and Pinnacle MEC both want to work together with one another when our seniority lists are merged. Colgan voting in ALPA is in the best interest of our pilots as well as the Pinnacle pilot group. We can stand together against management collectively as opposed to isolating ourselves by voting in Teamsters. If anything voting in Teamsters will leave Pinnacle and ALPA feeling alienated and THEN they might attempt to staple us.

Once again they cannot and will not staple us. Because of the transportation bill signed last December.

While we may quible over which union is better (and I have an opnion), the point is Colgan needs SOME union. After the vote, the group MUST unify and support the COLGAN UNION.

It would be a tragedy if the choice of union caused a rift in the pilot group.

I agree we need representation!!! However we need a union that will represent us, THE COLGAN PILOTS and not have any aliegence to the Pinnacle pilots.
ALPA cannot represent us without worring about what the pinnacle pilots want!!!
ALPA made a big mistake with US AIR when they did not favor the bigger pilot group and US AIR voted them out. It cost ALPA over 10 million per year. If ALPA were to represent Colgan they would always favor the bigger pilot group which happens to be pinnacle. They are not going to make that mistake again.

The scope language that the Pinnacle pilot group wants to put into their new contract will limit us Colgan Pilots to flying Aircraft with 34 seats and that is one of the issues that the mgm is fighting. If the Colgan pilots were to be represented by ALPA I do not think the management would care who was flying the aircraft and let the pinnacle pilots have them and ALPA will again favor the bigger pilot group and that will leave us with just the SAABs.

There are just to many issues between the two pilot groups that will at some point have to be addressed to have one union reperesenting both of us.

ALPA will do for Colgan what ALPA did for US Air

I suggest you take some time and learn more about how ALPA works and do more research then what you hear in the crew room. ALPA doesn't need to worry about what we want and what PNCL wants. The Colgan pilots and the PNCL pilots get their contracts, not ALPA. Think of ALPA as a franchise. so you actually believe that PNCL will limit colgan to 34 seat stuff huh, Pilots and conspiracy theories, who killed Kennedy btw?

I can tell by your post you really don't know what your talking about. You said, "ALPA made a big mistake when they did not favor the bigger pilot group." Then never favored any pilot group, ALPA merger policy was followed. USAIRWAYS pilots and AWA pilots were at the helm throughout the merger. Then the merged list was decided by an independant arbitrator. I think the best leason learned was avoid going to arbitration in a merger, but I actually took the time to figure out what happened. If you want to go by what you hear in the crew room fine, but your doing yourself and your coworkers a disservice.

The ALPA OC put their names out in the open day 1 with a letter to the pilot group, the IBT 747 OC hasn't done anything. That in itself speaks volumes. ALPA cards authorize a vote by the pilots, signing an IT card could mean IBT becomes a union without a vote. These little things add up and show alot about a group. Colgan has stated they would prefer IBT to ALPA. There is another warning flag, of course they want the union that will have the least bargaining power.

There isn't and doesn't have to be issues between the pilot groups. Those who are choosing to act like little kids are far and few,and they will remain at the childrens table. At the big person table everyting is fine and everyone knows we can work together to make both pilot groups lives better. The PNCL pilots deserve a new contract, and the Colgan pilots deserve representation that they can use to better their lives. ALPA or IBT can do that, in the end it's up to the pilots. But ALPA provides the best resources, lawyers, support, training and will power. Who is the IBT OC again?

Gosh that almost sounds like a comspiracy theory along the lines of TWA 800 or 9/11! So you don't want allegiance to/with the Pinnacle pilots? Hate to break it to ya but the work of the pinnacle pilots is the reason you have Q's, which, by the way, I don't know of ANYBODY here that wants to take them away from you and have 9e pilots flying them .
The reason you need ALPA and not the international association of paper-sizzors-rock players is so WE CAN be UNIFIED, not ALIENATED by management.

You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to ALPA.

If you vote ALPA, you will vote for your representatives. These will be Colgan line pilots. They will represent Colgan pilots at their MEC. ALPA national does NOT tell any MEC how to decide anything. Each individual MEC acts in its own best interest.

You are right about ALPA national not favoring the bigger pilot group in USAir. Nor did they favor the smaller group either. Each individual MEC made its decision independently of each other or ALPA national. And it didn't cost it $10 million per year. Where did you hear that?

If ALPA were to represent Colgan pilots, its MEC would do whats best for Colgan pilots. ALPA national has no authority to make decisions for the Colgan MEC.

As for scope, the best thing you can do there is combine both pilot groups.

OK, I know the previous posts have already responded to you about this, but it is worth repeating so that the facts get drilled into your head as well as the heads of all those others who are either spouting scare tactics or are just misinformed.

1. ALPA National did nothing to favor one pilot group over the other in the USAirways/America West seniority dispute. ALPA National has a Constitution and By-Laws (C&BL) containing exactly how ALPA will operate. (As an ALPA member you would have online access to this very document to read every word.) It contains ALPA merger policy as referenced above. Both America West and USAirways pilot groups followed ALPA merger policy as dictated and attempted to combine seniority lists. When they couldn't agree, ALPA policy says they can make use of a neutral (independent) arbitrator agreed to by both sides to come up with a binding solution. This is what happened. When the result angered one pilot group, they appealed to the Executive Council. All the Executive Council could do at that point was look at the entire process to make sure every step was followed according to policy and that each group knew the process. Both sides did and ALPA National had no choice but to accept the award because the process was followed correctly. ALPA National provided the tools and one group didn't like the outcome they chose.

2. ALPA National takes direction from all the individual airline MECs out there. Most people don't realize this because most people don't get involved enough to know how ALPA works. YOU vote for your representatives for your MEC. If you don't like something or want something changed, YOU can introduce a resolution at your LEC level. YOUR LEC representatives then take it to the MEC for a vote. If it passes this gives direction to the MEC. If it regards ALPA National, then YOUR MEC takes it up to the next level for a vote.

3. One union working together across all the brands under it's corporate umbrella is the best scenario. Coordination between MECs can prevent whip-sawing back and forth. A united front to management shows one group is not going to be pushed around at the expense of the other.

4. Can you tell me what other union will provide you access to the resources that ALPA provides? Aero Medical division working to get YOU back in the cockpit if you lose your medical. Insurance department which has many different types of short-term, long-term, disability, life and loss of license insurance designed SPECIFICALLY for pilots. A financial analysis department whose only job is to compile data on the financial health of companies and run numbers on what they know companies can afford to pay, etc. during contract negotiations. The union that pushed hard to get jumpseats back after 9/11. The union that pushed for CASS. The union that fought for CrewPass. The teamsters is not going to provide you that and does not look out for your best interests as a PILOT.

You get what you want in a contract because you and your fellow pilots stand up for what you want. It's management's job to spread fear of furlough, downgrades, reduction in flying, chapter 11 etc. That is what they do to intimidate. They will tell you we can keep this a family and take care of any problems easier without a union. Sorry, but without a contract and labor protections in it I wouldn't trust airline management not to fire any pilot as soon as they hit top pay or for whatever reason.

Make your decision, but make it with facts. Don't let fear, rumors, and innuendo decide your future. YOU have the right to cast a vote for the union you want (or don't as the case may be). However, the IBTs possible attempt to deny you a vote based on the one sentence in their card already should show you what I and others think about the Teamsters.

LISTEN to what you're saying, dude. You're saying US Air got screwed because ALPA "did not favor the bigger pilot group." My point EXACTLY. ALPA didn't "favor" anyone in that merger. But then you say, "ALPA will do for Colgan what they did for US Air." Do you mean, they're not going to favor anyone? Because that's what you want, right? Or do you mean, they won't favor the bigger pilot group? Because that's also what you want, right? So, I don't see what your point is.
ALPA would "always favor the bigger pilot group?" I thought you just said they didn't favor the bigger pilot group that was US Air? What makes you think, that if ALPA didn't do specials favors a big, established pilot group like US Air, they would do it for a much smaller group like Pinnacle? Can you tell me how ALPA would even make any favors?? PILOT representatives from both companies negotiate these issues, NOT ALPA. It's not like ALPA makes decisions on who will get the better end of the deal, like you and others are suggesting.
Why don't you just look up how the actual ALPA merger policy works instead of insulting your own intelligence and listening to others who have no clue what they're talking about? And FYI, ALPA didn't screw US Air.. they CHOSE to go to arbitration. Since you obviously don't know the facts about that merger, arbitrators are neutral parties and decisions made by them are final... anyone willing to give up the decision to the arbitrator knows that. You can't cry about it after the fact if the arbitrator ultimately comes up with a decision you feel is unfair... should've never let it go to arbitration in the first place then! I'm not saying US Air pilots didn't get screwed in the ******* in the process.. but that screwing wasn't done by ALPA, and anyone citing this US Air example to bolster their opinion of not voting for ALPA needs to understand the facts.

You DO NOT want the IBT..... nuff said.

IBT went ahead and sent out a email regarding the whole authorizing to vote thing.... thought i would post it up so everyone could read.


"Colgan Air Crewmembers:
I wanted to address some concerns regarding the organizing drive and the National Mediation Board (NMB) election. The key fact to remember is that these are two separate events. The organizing drive is a time to educate you on the potential benefits of electing IBT Local 747 as your bargaining representation, and to demonstrate to the NMB a showing of interest in order for them to authorize a representation election. This showing of interest is demonstrated through signing and submitting organizing (aka authorization) cards.

In order to file for a representation election with the NMB on your behalf, the NMB requires 35% of eligible crewmembers to sign and submit cards. The Teamsters have an internal requirement of 65%. The rationale behind this higher requirement is that once the election is filed for and authorized by the NMB, if 50% plus one of the pilot group does not vote "yes" for a union, a one year bar from attempting to obtain representation goes into place. You as Colgan Air pilots have already experienced the one year bar, where the Company was guaranteed inaction by the pilot group no matter how bad the work rules became or general dissatisfaction increased. We take your opportunity to gain representation seriously therefore we strive for 65%.

After the requisite number of authorization cards is submitted and the election is authorized, you will then be mailed voting instructions along with a voter identification number (VIN) and personal identification number (PIN). It is then, during the election, that you cast your vote for union representation, not with the signing and submission of an authorization card.

The risk of the pilot group internalizing false information regarding the significance of a signed authorization card is insurmountable. Remember, there are two thresholds to gaining union representation: (1) signing and submitting your authorization card, and (2) casting your vote for IBT Local 747 once the National Mediation Board election is authorized. I've attached a rough outline detailing these steps, in addition to what happens during and immediately after the election.

There have also been rumors that Colgan can by-pass an election and voluntarily allow a union on property to represent you. Is this true? Actually yes, the National Mediation Board does allow a company to voluntarily accept (in writing) a union chosen by the majority of its workers onto its property. Is this probable? No. What company would voluntarily invite a union onto the property unless it was an in-house union controlled by the company? If Colgan was willing to allow a union on the property without you fighting for it, would you really need a union to begin with? The voluntary recognition clause does exist, but the likelihood of it being invoked by Colgan is highly improbable. A quick resource for questions regarding the NMB is Frequently Asked Questions: Representation.

Remember, not only stay strong, but more importantly stay informed. We look forward to talking and meeting with you during the Q&A sessions being held in EWR, IAD and IAH. For times and locations, please see our website at Teamsters Local Union No. 747 Home. And as always, if you have any questions, please feel free to email or call me.

Don’t let others distract you from what is truly important—the interests of Colgan Air Pilots."

It's funny how they say voluntary recognition does exist, but not likely used because companies don't want unions. That's exactly what happened with our flight attendants. Colgan voluntary recognized the Steel workers to prevent having to deal with the AFA just last year.

Not impressed with the IBT drive at all

Do you really think that you are going to get all those new guys to sign a card and pay union dues for 10 years until you get a contract!?!?! Seriously, I know it was close last time but I just don't seeing it getting voted in this year either. I just hope that everyone gets informed as to the pros and cons of what alpa is going to do. Teamsters is the lesser of two evils anyway... flame on!

Here is was big key for me. Both ALPS and Teamsters is offering informational gatherings for the Colgan pilots at various locations including IAH where I am based.

ALPA came to the airport and had pilots and reps on property to answer questions for pilots in the terminal when we had a few minutes between flights.

Teamsters has not come to the airport, they have their little meetings at the headquarters in IAH.

Teamsters is not even willing to come to the airport to talk to us, what does that say?

I've actually heard rumors that Colgan will voluntarily allow the IBT to represent their pilots without having a vote. I didn't even know that they did that with their flight attendants. But if true, it says a lot that they would want the IBT rather than ALPA.

Where did you get 10 years from? And assuming that was true, how would IBT change that?

That is because ALPA is a union ran by pilots and not union bosses. It is run by people that have a vested interest in the profession because they are in the profession.

Yeah right. Then why, pray tell, did the powers-that-be change the official stance on age 65, when the majority of the members surveyed came out against it, not once, but twice? Why did then ALPA president Woerthless give a speech to the APA in MIA back in late 2001 about how "regional pilots don't make up the majority, so don't worry if their interests are in conflict with yours"? And I thought that we at Eagle, not American,were actually voting members of ALPA...

Not to turn this into an age 65 debate or what not, but come on. I was an ALPA member before. Not impressed. Not really impressed with IBT either, and maybe ALPA is the lesser of two evils. But let's not get carried away with ourselves thinking that ALPA is all that.

From what I understand, ALPA was against the age 65 rule from the start. The only reason they backed it was because it was going to pass whether or not ALPA wanted it so why not have a little say in the bill rather than getting nothing. It is just delaying the inevitable.....the old guys have to go sometime.

"High improbable"? Well, since this EXACT situation happened with our flight attendants around this time last year, I would say "extremely probable." Obviously Ms. Ashley Mosher thinks we know less about the happenings at our own company than we should.

Colgan would, as they clearly demonstrated last year with the FAs.

Colgan is willing to allow a union without us fighting for it, because they KNOW that at this point, it's inevitable - there are way too many disgruntled pilots who learned their lesson throughout this year, and Colgan knows this. Colgan is willing to allow Teamsters, because otherwise they will have a pilot group represented by ALPA. It is the lesser of the two evils for them. The lesser of two evils for THEM, not for us PILOTS. Remember, we do not have the same goals as Colgan in the regard that we want PROTECTION from their abuses... do you want protection from a union that is essentially endorsed by the Colgan? And you have to ask yourself, why DOES Colgan prefer Teamsters over ALPA? Because they care about us and want us to save 6 bucks per month on Teamsters dues rather than ALPA dues? Or because Teamsters is by far the more powerless union and Colgan could negotiate a crappier contract with us being Teamsters?

In other words, "if Colgan was willing to allow Teamsters on the property without you fighting for it, would you really need them?" My point EXACTLY. Would you really want the management's union of choice? Would that even be a union at all?

This Teamsters letter keeps on emphasizing in the first few paragraphs that they take the opportunity to gain representation very seriously, and how their own goal is 65% vote instead of the standard 50+1, because they want to be that much more certain of our support.. YET they include in their vote cards this clause that could make them our union by default, without us pilot ever voting for them. That is a pretty STARK contradiction between what they're telling us in this letter, and what they're actually doing with those cards. If Teamsters truly wants to be fair like they're claiming to be, why don't they take that deceptive clause out of those authorization cards... so they can't give Colgan the option to recognize Teamsters without an election.

This letter is truly insulting. Contradictions abound if you take the time to read every line. It's really annoying how they attempt to be so factual about this 'representation without an election is highly improbable' BS. I KNOW it will convince some pilots who haven't been here a year and aren't aware of the flight attendants union situation. At the very least, this Teamsters lady needs to start writing better letters... not all of us are stupid enough to be convinced by blatant contradictions and lies.

yup.

You are correct in your understanding.