Lakes hiring 121 guys
09-09-2008, 07:56 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
It sounds to me like a lot has changed at Lakes and a lot hasn't.
Lakes was my first airline. I was hired there in July 2000. Back then it was still hard to get hired without lots of PIC time, and turbine or 135/121 was preferred. I took the interview on a lark because I was waiting for the 1200/200 mins at Comair and thought it would be good interview experience.
They flew me out to the "hangar" in Spencer Iowa. I was interviewed by Jeff Davis, the DO (infamous among Lakes veterans). Back in these days, there were a lot of psychological "tricks" they played to see how you would react or put you on edge. They would make you wait an hour or longer. They would hand you a cup of cold coffee and see if you drink it or complain about it. They would seat you in a broken chair where the arm falls off and see if you try to quietly fix it and hide the damage, or 'fess up.
After waiting two hours (there was only me and another applicant) JD called me in with a "Are you ____? Get in my office!" He was wearing a flannel shirt, jeans, and cowboy boots. He went over my logbook and said "well, I guess you're qualified" (I had 1250/150 and all the CFI ratings). He threw my logbook on the desk and asked me why I was there. I told him that I wanted to see what they were all about. He asked why he should hire me. I answered. Then he turned around and pointed out the window.
"See that 1900 out there?"
Yes sir.
"If we go get in that right now, do you think you could fly it"?
If you give me the pitch attitudes and power settings, yes, I believe I could.
He said "We have a class starting Monday (it was Thursday). Go home and talk to your wife, then call me tomorrow if you can be in that class. I can offer you B-1900 street captain or Brasilia FO for 6 months, then 1900 captain". That was my whole interview. It lasted 15 minutes.
I took the class date for the hell of it. I went for the Brakillya since I had no 121 time, and I knew their street captain washout rate was in the 90 percentile. Training was in Spencer, IA, and they paid for the hotel (actually a motel... the infamous "Plaza 1 Motel"). Everything else was our expense. Training was supposed to last a couple of weeks, door to door, but it took about a month and a half. Training was hell. CRM was virtually non-existant in those days. It was more like boot camp than training. Instructors screamed at you and told you that you sucked. They would give you a 4 inch thick manual on Monday, tell you that the test is Friday, and have a quiz every morning. Fail a quiz and you're out. Fail the test and you're out. We had to spend 4+ hours a night studying. Memory items were required to be memorized by day 2. We were expected to have a knowledge level of the systems on par with a Brasilia engineer. Several in my class washed out in ground training.
Then came the sim. We went to Flight Safety in CVG. On day one (mind you, NONE of us had turbine time) they threw approaches and emergencies at us. Try single engine NDB approaches and holding in an airplane 10x larger, more powerful, and faster than anything you've ever flown. We were told that we had to be so good at flying that the flying part was second nature or we wouldn't make it through the latter part of the sim. Two more of my class washed out. It was pure hell. Every day was like your last day. And worse, the instructors were a bunch of IA/MN good 'ol boys who thought it was a big joke. They laughed and screwed around, and it was a big party for them. A lot of hazing went on. They smacked us in the sim and yelled when we screwed up.
Flight training was a little better. Back in Spencer. By now, we had "proven ourselves" and the IP's attitudes seemed to get better. Of the 8 of us that started class together, 3 actually made it to the line. Four bit it in training. One washed out in IOE.
I must say, that once I was out of training, it was good times. I made it was sent to O'Hare. Eventually I finagled to get myself based in LAN by brown nosing DS "Diamond Dave", a captain who wrote the schedules and wrote me a TDY line (I lived in MI). We would do overnights in Iron Mountain. MI where there's nothing to do but get drunk and go to the supper club. I've done the famed competition puking off the top of the ski jump at 2am. Lakes is the most fun aviation job I've had, mostly because of the crews. In Chicago, we were the distant base, and didn't have to put up with the BS out in Denver where management was watching. It was a country club. And we had autopilots (when they weren't deferred), unlike the 1900 pukes.
By October of 2000, the rumors were rampant that United was going to fire us. We had Air Wisconsin pilots bragging that they already had Jepps for our cities. Many dismissed the rumors as typical chatter, but when we started pulling out of some bread and butter EAS cities, I read the writing on the wall. I shopped around and learned of a little company in Atlanta called ASA. They flew Brasilias and the uniform was the same, so i wouldn't have to buy a new one, or struggle through training. I interviewed and got into a hiring pool.
I got my upgrade award for DEN 1900 captain in December. I was to report to class in mid January. I still hadn't heard from ASA, so i went. By now, GLA HQ had moved to Cheyenne, WY and that's where training was. As I was going through DEN to CYS, ASA called my home and left a message. The next morning, I called them and they offered me a class 5 days away. I politely declined so as to give Lakes a 2 week notice. They offered me the next class and I took it.
I then went to the hangar and introduced myself to the new chief pilot, telling him that although I was supposed to start upgrade class tomorrow, i had come to give him a two week notice for ASA. He told me to go home, then fax him a letter in writing. Two weeks after I started at ASA, United dropped the bomb on Lakes that they were no longer going to be UAX and that they had to be out of Chicago with the airplanes repainted by the end of 2001.
That's my Lakes experience. All in all, I'd say it was good. It made me a better pilot, and a more mature person. Back in that day, people went to Lakes because you could upgrade quick, get your 1000 turbine PIC, and go to United (UAL LOVED lakes pilots, because they knew the "system" and didn't ever *****). Not so much anymore.
Nowadays, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. It's definitely not the kind of place you want to get stuck at. It's good to get your foot in the door to go somewhere else, but will screw your career if you're not careful.
Lakes was my first airline. I was hired there in July 2000. Back then it was still hard to get hired without lots of PIC time, and turbine or 135/121 was preferred. I took the interview on a lark because I was waiting for the 1200/200 mins at Comair and thought it would be good interview experience.
They flew me out to the "hangar" in Spencer Iowa. I was interviewed by Jeff Davis, the DO (infamous among Lakes veterans). Back in these days, there were a lot of psychological "tricks" they played to see how you would react or put you on edge. They would make you wait an hour or longer. They would hand you a cup of cold coffee and see if you drink it or complain about it. They would seat you in a broken chair where the arm falls off and see if you try to quietly fix it and hide the damage, or 'fess up.
After waiting two hours (there was only me and another applicant) JD called me in with a "Are you ____? Get in my office!" He was wearing a flannel shirt, jeans, and cowboy boots. He went over my logbook and said "well, I guess you're qualified" (I had 1250/150 and all the CFI ratings). He threw my logbook on the desk and asked me why I was there. I told him that I wanted to see what they were all about. He asked why he should hire me. I answered. Then he turned around and pointed out the window.
"See that 1900 out there?"
Yes sir.
"If we go get in that right now, do you think you could fly it"?
If you give me the pitch attitudes and power settings, yes, I believe I could.
He said "We have a class starting Monday (it was Thursday). Go home and talk to your wife, then call me tomorrow if you can be in that class. I can offer you B-1900 street captain or Brasilia FO for 6 months, then 1900 captain". That was my whole interview. It lasted 15 minutes.
I took the class date for the hell of it. I went for the Brakillya since I had no 121 time, and I knew their street captain washout rate was in the 90 percentile. Training was in Spencer, IA, and they paid for the hotel (actually a motel... the infamous "Plaza 1 Motel"). Everything else was our expense. Training was supposed to last a couple of weeks, door to door, but it took about a month and a half. Training was hell. CRM was virtually non-existant in those days. It was more like boot camp than training. Instructors screamed at you and told you that you sucked. They would give you a 4 inch thick manual on Monday, tell you that the test is Friday, and have a quiz every morning. Fail a quiz and you're out. Fail the test and you're out. We had to spend 4+ hours a night studying. Memory items were required to be memorized by day 2. We were expected to have a knowledge level of the systems on par with a Brasilia engineer. Several in my class washed out in ground training.
Then came the sim. We went to Flight Safety in CVG. On day one (mind you, NONE of us had turbine time) they threw approaches and emergencies at us. Try single engine NDB approaches and holding in an airplane 10x larger, more powerful, and faster than anything you've ever flown. We were told that we had to be so good at flying that the flying part was second nature or we wouldn't make it through the latter part of the sim. Two more of my class washed out. It was pure hell. Every day was like your last day. And worse, the instructors were a bunch of IA/MN good 'ol boys who thought it was a big joke. They laughed and screwed around, and it was a big party for them. A lot of hazing went on. They smacked us in the sim and yelled when we screwed up.
Flight training was a little better. Back in Spencer. By now, we had "proven ourselves" and the IP's attitudes seemed to get better. Of the 8 of us that started class together, 3 actually made it to the line. Four bit it in training. One washed out in IOE.
I must say, that once I was out of training, it was good times. I made it was sent to O'Hare. Eventually I finagled to get myself based in LAN by brown nosing DS "Diamond Dave", a captain who wrote the schedules and wrote me a TDY line (I lived in MI). We would do overnights in Iron Mountain. MI where there's nothing to do but get drunk and go to the supper club. I've done the famed competition puking off the top of the ski jump at 2am. Lakes is the most fun aviation job I've had, mostly because of the crews. In Chicago, we were the distant base, and didn't have to put up with the BS out in Denver where management was watching. It was a country club. And we had autopilots (when they weren't deferred), unlike the 1900 pukes.
By October of 2000, the rumors were rampant that United was going to fire us. We had Air Wisconsin pilots bragging that they already had Jepps for our cities. Many dismissed the rumors as typical chatter, but when we started pulling out of some bread and butter EAS cities, I read the writing on the wall. I shopped around and learned of a little company in Atlanta called ASA. They flew Brasilias and the uniform was the same, so i wouldn't have to buy a new one, or struggle through training. I interviewed and got into a hiring pool.
I got my upgrade award for DEN 1900 captain in December. I was to report to class in mid January. I still hadn't heard from ASA, so i went. By now, GLA HQ had moved to Cheyenne, WY and that's where training was. As I was going through DEN to CYS, ASA called my home and left a message. The next morning, I called them and they offered me a class 5 days away. I politely declined so as to give Lakes a 2 week notice. They offered me the next class and I took it.
I then went to the hangar and introduced myself to the new chief pilot, telling him that although I was supposed to start upgrade class tomorrow, i had come to give him a two week notice for ASA. He told me to go home, then fax him a letter in writing. Two weeks after I started at ASA, United dropped the bomb on Lakes that they were no longer going to be UAX and that they had to be out of Chicago with the airplanes repainted by the end of 2001.
That's my Lakes experience. All in all, I'd say it was good. It made me a better pilot, and a more mature person. Back in that day, people went to Lakes because you could upgrade quick, get your 1000 turbine PIC, and go to United (UAL LOVED lakes pilots, because they knew the "system" and didn't ever *****). Not so much anymore.
Nowadays, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. It's definitely not the kind of place you want to get stuck at. It's good to get your foot in the door to go somewhere else, but will screw your career if you're not careful.
09-09-2008, 10:37 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
It sounds to me like a lot has changed at Lakes and a lot hasn't.
Lakes was my first airline. I was hired there in July 2000. Back then it was still hard to get hired without lots of PIC time, and turbine or 135/121 was preferred. I took the interview on a lark because I was waiting for the 1200/200 mins at Comair and thought it would be good interview experience.
They flew me out to the "hangar" in Spencer Iowa. I was interviewed by Jeff Davis, the DO (infamous among Lakes veterans). Back in these days, there were a lot of psychological "tricks" they played to see how you would react or put you on edge. They would make you wait an hour or longer. They would hand you a cup of cold coffee and see if you drink it or complain about it. They would seat you in a broken chair where the arm falls off and see if you try to quietly fix it and hide the damage, or 'fess up.
After waiting two hours (there was only me and another applicant) JD called me in with a "Are you ____? Get in my office!" He was wearing a flannel shirt, jeans, and cowboy boots. He went over my logbook and said "well, I guess you're qualified" (I had 1250/150 and all the CFI ratings). He threw my logbook on the desk and asked me why I was there. I told him that I wanted to see what they were all about. He asked why he should hire me. I answered. Then he turned around and pointed out the window.
"See that 1900 out there?"
Yes sir.
"If we go get in that right now, do you think you could fly it"?
If you give me the pitch attitudes and power settings, yes, I believe I could.
He said "We have a class starting Monday (it was Thursday). Go home and talk to your wife, then call me tomorrow if you can be in that class. I can offer you B-1900 street captain or Brasilia FO for 6 months, then 1900 captain". That was my whole interview. It lasted 15 minutes.
I took the class date for the hell of it. I went for the Brakillya since I had no 121 time, and I knew their street captain washout rate was in the 90 percentile. Training was in Spencer, IA, and they paid for the hotel (actually a motel... the infamous "Plaza 1 Motel"). Everything else was our expense. Training was supposed to last a couple of weeks, door to door, but it took about a month and a half. Training was hell. CRM was virtually non-existant in those days. It was more like boot camp than training. Instructors screamed at you and told you that you sucked. They would give you a 4 inch thick manual on Monday, tell you that the test is Friday, and have a quiz every morning. Fail a quiz and you're out. Fail the test and you're out. We had to spend 4+ hours a night studying. Memory items were required to be memorized by day 2. We were expected to have a knowledge level of the systems on par with a Brasilia engineer. Several in my class washed out in ground training.
Then came the sim. We went to Flight Safety in CVG. On day one (mind you, NONE of us had turbine time) they threw approaches and emergencies at us. Try single engine NDB approaches and holding in an airplane 10x larger, more powerful, and faster than anything you've ever flown. We were told that we had to be so good at flying that the flying part was second nature or we wouldn't make it through the latter part of the sim. Two more of my class washed out. It was pure hell. Every day was like your last day. And worse, the instructors were a bunch of IA/MN good 'ol boys who thought it was a big joke. They laughed and screwed around, and it was a big party for them. A lot of hazing went on. They smacked us in the sim and yelled when we screwed up.
Flight training was a little better. Back in Spencer. By now, we had "proven ourselves" and the IP's attitudes seemed to get better. Of the 8 of us that started class together, 3 actually made it to the line. Four bit it in training. One washed out in IOE.
I must say, that once I was out of training, it was good times. I made it was sent to O'Hare. Eventually I finagled to get myself based in LAN by brown nosing DS "Diamond Dave", a captain who wrote the schedules and wrote me a TDY line (I lived in MI). We would do overnights in Iron Mountain. MI where there's nothing to do but get drunk and go to the supper club. I've done the famed competition puking off the top of the ski jump at 2am. Lakes is the most fun aviation job I've had, mostly because of the crews. In Chicago, we were the distant base, and didn't have to put up with the BS out in Denver where management was watching. It was a country club. And we had autopilots (when they weren't deferred), unlike the 1900 pukes.
By October of 2000, the rumors were rampant that United was going to fire us. We had Air Wisconsin pilots bragging that they already had Jepps for our cities. Many dismissed the rumors as typical chatter, but when we started pulling out of some bread and butter EAS cities, I read the writing on the wall. I shopped around and learned of a little company in Atlanta called ASA. They flew Brasilias and the uniform was the same, so i wouldn't have to buy a new one, or struggle through training. I interviewed and got into a hiring pool.
I got my upgrade award for DEN 1900 captain in December. I was to report to class in mid January. I still hadn't heard from ASA, so i went. By now, GLA HQ had moved to Cheyenne, WY and that's where training was. As I was going through DEN to CYS, ASA called my home and left a message. The next morning, I called them and they offered me a class 5 days away. I politely declined so as to give Lakes a 2 week notice. They offered me the next class and I took it.
I then went to the hangar and introduced myself to the new chief pilot, telling him that although I was supposed to start upgrade class tomorrow, i had come to give him a two week notice for ASA. He told me to go home, then fax him a letter in writing. Two weeks after I started at ASA, United dropped the bomb on Lakes that they were no longer going to be UAX and that they had to be out of Chicago with the airplanes repainted by the end of 2001.
That's my Lakes experience. All in all, I'd say it was good. It made me a better pilot, and a more mature person. Back in that day, people went to Lakes because you could upgrade quick, get your 1000 turbine PIC, and go to United (UAL LOVED lakes pilots, because they knew the "system" and didn't ever *****). Not so much anymore.
Nowadays, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. It's definitely not the kind of place you want to get stuck at. It's good to get your foot in the door to go somewhere else, but will screw your career if you're not careful.
Lakes was my first airline. I was hired there in July 2000. Back then it was still hard to get hired without lots of PIC time, and turbine or 135/121 was preferred. I took the interview on a lark because I was waiting for the 1200/200 mins at Comair and thought it would be good interview experience.
They flew me out to the "hangar" in Spencer Iowa. I was interviewed by Jeff Davis, the DO (infamous among Lakes veterans). Back in these days, there were a lot of psychological "tricks" they played to see how you would react or put you on edge. They would make you wait an hour or longer. They would hand you a cup of cold coffee and see if you drink it or complain about it. They would seat you in a broken chair where the arm falls off and see if you try to quietly fix it and hide the damage, or 'fess up.
After waiting two hours (there was only me and another applicant) JD called me in with a "Are you ____? Get in my office!" He was wearing a flannel shirt, jeans, and cowboy boots. He went over my logbook and said "well, I guess you're qualified" (I had 1250/150 and all the CFI ratings). He threw my logbook on the desk and asked me why I was there. I told him that I wanted to see what they were all about. He asked why he should hire me. I answered. Then he turned around and pointed out the window.
"See that 1900 out there?"
Yes sir.
"If we go get in that right now, do you think you could fly it"?
If you give me the pitch attitudes and power settings, yes, I believe I could.
He said "We have a class starting Monday (it was Thursday). Go home and talk to your wife, then call me tomorrow if you can be in that class. I can offer you B-1900 street captain or Brasilia FO for 6 months, then 1900 captain". That was my whole interview. It lasted 15 minutes.
I took the class date for the hell of it. I went for the Brakillya since I had no 121 time, and I knew their street captain washout rate was in the 90 percentile. Training was in Spencer, IA, and they paid for the hotel (actually a motel... the infamous "Plaza 1 Motel"). Everything else was our expense. Training was supposed to last a couple of weeks, door to door, but it took about a month and a half. Training was hell. CRM was virtually non-existant in those days. It was more like boot camp than training. Instructors screamed at you and told you that you sucked. They would give you a 4 inch thick manual on Monday, tell you that the test is Friday, and have a quiz every morning. Fail a quiz and you're out. Fail the test and you're out. We had to spend 4+ hours a night studying. Memory items were required to be memorized by day 2. We were expected to have a knowledge level of the systems on par with a Brasilia engineer. Several in my class washed out in ground training.
Then came the sim. We went to Flight Safety in CVG. On day one (mind you, NONE of us had turbine time) they threw approaches and emergencies at us. Try single engine NDB approaches and holding in an airplane 10x larger, more powerful, and faster than anything you've ever flown. We were told that we had to be so good at flying that the flying part was second nature or we wouldn't make it through the latter part of the sim. Two more of my class washed out. It was pure hell. Every day was like your last day. And worse, the instructors were a bunch of IA/MN good 'ol boys who thought it was a big joke. They laughed and screwed around, and it was a big party for them. A lot of hazing went on. They smacked us in the sim and yelled when we screwed up.
Flight training was a little better. Back in Spencer. By now, we had "proven ourselves" and the IP's attitudes seemed to get better. Of the 8 of us that started class together, 3 actually made it to the line. Four bit it in training. One washed out in IOE.
I must say, that once I was out of training, it was good times. I made it was sent to O'Hare. Eventually I finagled to get myself based in LAN by brown nosing DS "Diamond Dave", a captain who wrote the schedules and wrote me a TDY line (I lived in MI). We would do overnights in Iron Mountain. MI where there's nothing to do but get drunk and go to the supper club. I've done the famed competition puking off the top of the ski jump at 2am. Lakes is the most fun aviation job I've had, mostly because of the crews. In Chicago, we were the distant base, and didn't have to put up with the BS out in Denver where management was watching. It was a country club. And we had autopilots (when they weren't deferred), unlike the 1900 pukes.
By October of 2000, the rumors were rampant that United was going to fire us. We had Air Wisconsin pilots bragging that they already had Jepps for our cities. Many dismissed the rumors as typical chatter, but when we started pulling out of some bread and butter EAS cities, I read the writing on the wall. I shopped around and learned of a little company in Atlanta called ASA. They flew Brasilias and the uniform was the same, so i wouldn't have to buy a new one, or struggle through training. I interviewed and got into a hiring pool.
I got my upgrade award for DEN 1900 captain in December. I was to report to class in mid January. I still hadn't heard from ASA, so i went. By now, GLA HQ had moved to Cheyenne, WY and that's where training was. As I was going through DEN to CYS, ASA called my home and left a message. The next morning, I called them and they offered me a class 5 days away. I politely declined so as to give Lakes a 2 week notice. They offered me the next class and I took it.
I then went to the hangar and introduced myself to the new chief pilot, telling him that although I was supposed to start upgrade class tomorrow, i had come to give him a two week notice for ASA. He told me to go home, then fax him a letter in writing. Two weeks after I started at ASA, United dropped the bomb on Lakes that they were no longer going to be UAX and that they had to be out of Chicago with the airplanes repainted by the end of 2001.
That's my Lakes experience. All in all, I'd say it was good. It made me a better pilot, and a more mature person. Back in that day, people went to Lakes because you could upgrade quick, get your 1000 turbine PIC, and go to United (UAL LOVED lakes pilots, because they knew the "system" and didn't ever *****). Not so much anymore.
Nowadays, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. It's definitely not the kind of place you want to get stuck at. It's good to get your foot in the door to go somewhere else, but will screw your career if you're not careful.
If you have a good scan, a good attitude, can shoot a full NDB, and you know how to enter an unpublished hold using an RMI then you will be fine... as long as you work hard.
09-10-2008, 08:29 PM
#65
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by Boomer
What airline would dispatch to an airport below mins with forecast icing, mechanical deferrals, and no alternate fuel?
What professional pilot would accept the flight?
Or does the scenario assume everything was OK when you left, then the weather gets worse and stuff starts to break in route, and you decide to "press on" to the destination?
What professional pilot would accept the flight?
Or does the scenario assume everything was OK when you left, then the weather gets worse and stuff starts to break in route, and you decide to "press on" to the destination?
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