How does Mesaba know you gave up your seniority number at your old airline? Is it possible to tell Mesaba you gave it up but didn't?

Depends on the two companies and the circumstances of the merger. If pilot group X had a more senior list than Pilot group Y would that be fair?

Y would it be fair to those who were furloughed with a more senior number?

Mesaba would know because on the first day, you will be asked to sign a letter saying you're resigning, which then gets sent to HR at the company you're resigning from. Mesaba will then follow up to ensure the pilot has truly resigned. A chief pilot could never shred a letter they would never see.

Ok third time now stay with me here. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN ANY ALPA MERGER EVER!!

First off DOH is not ALPA merger policy. ALPA merger policy is a "fair" integration with no windfalls.


Second A furloughed pilot from x will never be placed above an active pilot from y. The entire USair mess they are in now is because furloughed pilots from the East were placed below active pilots from the west.

You keep mentioning seniority. Seniority is a company only thing. Right now our "union" has no national seniority list.

I think what you mean to mention is longevity. Longevity has little or no effect in ALPA merger policy.

Am I saying it is right? No but thats how it is. Furloughed pilots always go at the bottom of any merged list. Always!

What he said.....

If I was Comair, I would tell you everything you wanted to hear and recall my guys in order of seniority so I could recoup the cost of training them and barely using them. I wouldn't care about your need for a resignation letter to employ a pilot that I spent thousands of dollars training in aircraft that I was projecting to be flying. Some might come back, some might not... but you bet I would have a list of all the people I furloughed and they would be on my list to call back when the time comes.

Business is one big ethical dilemma isn't it?

So you're saying that just because Comair paid lots of money to train a pilot they're going to ignore a letter of resignation? At what point should a company take a letter of resignation seriously? Never in your world apparently.

For those of you who have not read the Anderson interview, that was very enlightening. Anderson stated that after the merger DAL would like to start with Mesaba and Compass when he was asked if he wants to streamline regionals flying for DAL. Mesaba and Compass is already held under a Mesaba Compass Holding Corporation. Anderson indicated he was happy with the structure set up at Mesaba and the projected CASM.

As far as growth, no official word has been announced but Mesaba is interviewing and hiring like there is no tomorrow. Mesaba already has 34 of the 36 CRJ9 promised so that is not the reason for all this hiring. The pilot roster grew from less than 600 in early 2007 to approx 1150 as of this month and the list keeps growing every time the seniority list comes out. The maintenance manager last week told us he had received the serial and registration numbers for 17 additional CRJ9s and he added the additional aircraft are coming to Mesaba and he was very certain about it. Take it for what its worth.

I do not think Mesaba and Comair will merge. Anderson did not even mention Comair and there are simply too many barriers for the Comair and Mesaba pilots to merge. What will happen to Comair is on everyones mind but no one really knows for sure. According to aviation analysts, Comair is too heavy with CRJ200s that are no longer economically attractive to major airlines. As far as Mesaba and Compass, I do not see those two merging either. Mesaba does their payroll and other administrative functions according to our management, but that's about it. There is no plan for those two to merge.

I agree that hindsight is always 20/20. It's always a gamble trying to stay ahead in this airline business. I can't recommend what you should do because you have to make that decision. Only thing I can say is talk to Mesaba pilots, compare the QOL and the work rules and see if Mesaba would be a good fit for you. Giving up seniority number is always hard but it would make sense if the other benefits outweigh the loss.

All the folks who are hating on Mesaba for possibly (it's so obvious) growing with the new Delta need to do some homework. Go back and research what Mesaba has gone through in the last 5-8 years, most notably our bankruptcy in 2005-2007.

We did not voluntarily take paycuts to undercut any other airline for growth. Our paycuts were taken with a gun to our heads. At least ALPA was able to negotiate very lucrative claims as well as snap back provisions for our pay. No work rules were touched. We were shrunk by HALF and then rebuilt with new planes and and more than half of our pilot group has less than 2 years seniority. I know it's hard to be positive when another airline is growing an you're stagnant or shrinking. But why all the hate?

Do you haters all realize that when the rest of the industry was growing and prospering Mesaba was getting screwed left and right? Half our pilots weren't here for that drama, but the other half was. It's no fun to be on the receiving end of the stick that's beating you. But don't be hating because some other company FINALLY is having some positive news for more than a minute.

So that's why the pilots at OH don't care for the CP's. They (ONE) does give the impression of bieng ANAL.

I think you understand my statement and I don't need to clarify the intent of a resignation letter.

All I'm saying is this: I'm sure Comair doesn't care about Mesaba's hiring practices and when the rubber meets the road, when needed, they would like to lure their employees back. If you don't think that's true... well, okay. We'll just have to wait and see what happens when/if it ever happens. I know what I was told... I got the sincere impression that Comair (or at least the CP) wasn't HAPPY about furloughing their pilots and I have a shred of humanity and optimism left in me to think he meant what he said.

I can email him again and see if he's still planning to shred resignation letters if you want?

That's great and all that your CPs might care. But here's the reality... if someone RESIGNS, as in QUITS and LEAVES THE COMPANY they will not get recalled. When you resign you give up all rights for recall and have separated from the company.

I still want to know when you think a company would take a resignation seriously? If I were HR and received a letter of resignation, why wouldn't it be taken as such?

I wouldn't resign my seniority if I didn't have to. It's a hard decision to make and I certainly understand the reluctance to do so, but we always have to make hard decisions. It's something that should be taken seriously... from both sides.

I'm glad you think contracts are unbreakable... as in losing all recall rights and not being recalled. Comair breaks our contract all the time... why wouldn't they break it to suit themselves AND its pilots for once? You think anybody would complain because 206 furloughed pilots got their jobs back? The worst I can see happening is a pilot gets recalled after resigning and the guys below him throw a fit because they didn't move up a spot. I would be ashamed to be the guy complaining about giving another pilot his job back.

That's just me thinking out loud.

Just thinking out loud... but I would presume that when you resign from a company, you are removed from the seniority list. Therefore when there is a recall, you are not there to be called. I dunno... seems like the logical thing to me.

Just give it up... he's not going to get it, some people just have to learn the hard way.

At least my posts are based on a REAL conversation with a REAL person whereas you guys just want to speculate about what will or will not happen to a company where you're not even employed. Keep up the speculation, it's entertaining. I'll be interested to see how long Delta keeps pouring the gravy on your train.

No speculation going on here. We're talking about what happens when someone resigns. If a letter is sent to HR, with the words in it that I AM RESIGNING, how is that not clear that you intend to resign? If you resign, you quit. Done. Fini. Finito. You will not get recalled if you don't even exist anymore. Can it get anymore clear?

Are YOU going to govern Comair's HR practices? Are you the resignation letter police? I don't pretend to speak for Comair... I just know what I was told. You ready to drop it now?

This thread went from stupid to ridiculous in about 4 seconds..wow

haha, I thought it was fun too... arguing on the internet is America's new favorite pastime. I'm just glad I could contribute.

During a merge, you would take your date of hire at Delta and others date of hire at Northwest. Merge the two and your years of service is where your seniority would be. That would be fair. Adding one group to the bottom of another would never work. As adding the furloughed guys to the bottom of a list wouldn't be fair either.

I'm a Comair guy with 1yr senority and applied to Mesaba but I don't want to chase upgrade, that could change very fast. Yes Mesaba sounds like a real good deal but taking the pay cut, going on the bottom of another regional that is wholly owned by a airline that is involved in a merger, they have a flowthrough and also a flowback yes but flowback though might hurt for newbies. I don't know.... I'm taking a interview if I get it and if hired it will take alot of thinking to make a final decision, but don't mind playing the waiting game with Comair.

I guess we find out why Mesaba has been hiring so much. Oh what should I do....screw it I'm going trick or treating and handing my resume out while I'm doing it

answer
 

i was offered to interview with mesaba...been thinking since i posted this thread....i have decided not to take the gig with them. i will throw the dice here and let it play out, at least when i come back(if comair stays alive), i will be on fourth year 70 fo pay........now thats 8 years at mesaba to be back at the pay i got in 4years. best of luck to the ones that jumped ship and went to mesaba, time will tell. thanks for everyones thoughts.:confused:

Wow, you accrue longevity at Comair when you're on furlough? That's a pretty good furlough gig. How deep are furloughs going?

206 of us most senior I think is April '07

No kidding I'd love to have that 14 months back I lost furloughed from here....

Oh really? Your impeccable logic has worked wonders in merging the NWA and DL mainline senority lists... in fact does anyone know how that actually played out.

If.... and its a huge if... comair and mesaba merged I guarantee it would not be a DOH merger. More than half of mesabas pilots, including a number of captains would go to reserve/highspeed/furloughed FO in an instant. The good news would be for all of the 2+ year fo's at Comair.... congradulations you finally get to upgrade! You can see where the problems begin to arise.

OK GUYS

they're not merging Comair and Mesaba, or Comair and anyone..it WILL NOT HAPPEN!

no way

no how

From what i hear from DL guys, it's relative seniority +/- a few percentage points. Not everyone is going to be happy, but it's the most fair way to do it.



aaaaand

it's congratulations...

We don't accrue longevity while on furlough at Comair. I think he was combining his current years of service at Comair AND future years of service at Mesaba to get back to what he's currently making (???). It's clear in our contract that we don't accrue longevity on furlough.

I thought the ones that were furloughed at Comair at the start of the bankruptcy did get 6 months or so longevity on furlough or at least if they came back they didn't loose any but if it went over 6 months then it was frozen back to the furlough or something like that.....

Maybe I'm on crack... could've swore I read about accrual of longevity while on furlough. All I can find at the moment is accrual of seniority. So much for "clearly stated"... maybe somebody else can help us. :)

we accrue seniority only