My buck o'five
 

Advice to college kids or fresh newbee pilots out there looking to work in this industry....

The reality is that there are way too many overqualified pilots on the streets deciding to either take pay cuts and stay in aviation or get out. That is if they can even get rehired elsewhere. These are the folks you are competing against. And what is scary is the shelf life on a pilot out of work is not long.

You don't make the cut.

This is a cyclical industry and some get lucky. That trend is over and we are on hard times. As a good person and professional you should never wish ill upon any in this job although too many do. This is a job that provides great satisfaction and challenges that most will never know. At the same time it tests your sanity daily.

What it does do though is require determination to arrive and to continue. Surviving in this industry is difficult. You will not find pity from many, but you will get a nod of understanding. It takes a lot of work whether it be civilian or military to be sucessful and even more to endure.

When a college kid comes in never really having flown it angers many. Especially those that have spent any extended period of time dealing with the tribulations and day to day struggles. Too much these days we see a sense of entitlement among new hires only causing more frustration among the ranks.

Just my buck o' five.....

And I could be completely wrong.

Then why do some regionals continue to pass by "highly qualified" people and hire the guys right out of school instead. I think the fact is that maybe airlines are not looking for the guys who have the bad attitudes with lots of experience. You can teach someone to fly your plane, you cannot teach them to have good morals

OH C'MON, kick this guy out. It's obviously flame-bait.

HAHA, the thing is that it is true at a lot of airlines.


And they would have already kicked me out at this point...

"Kicking people out" isn't done lightly. There has to be a history of infractions and TOS violations.

If a user feels a post violates TOS, please report the post using the red triangle thingy in the lower left had corner of the screen. All the mods will see the post and can respond, if necessary. Please make a case as to why the post violates TOS if you report a post.

"you cannot teach them to have good morals"

What do you mean by good morals?

Hahaha the thing is that it's not. As you said in the closed thread, you're a nice college student striving to fly the "9" preferably before you hit 500 hours, let me give you a tip. None of the regional airlines hire because of merit, you're just a number. That month they may need low timers because there is high FO turnover rate. The other month they may need the 4000 hour guy because the low time FOs they hired previously don't have the time to upgrade now. At the regional airline level, it's all about flight time not your personality or "morals". I vote for boot as well, all of this guys posts have been intentional flame bait.

Nobody over the age of 30 uses a Team America: World Police catch phrase as the title of their post...

That said, he does have a point...I too have seen a sense of entitlement out of a few graduates of my alma-mater that they are seemingly owed an airline job because of the name on their degree, regardless of their real-world lack of flight time or, more importantly, experience. I've also witnessed the same attitude from some graduates of the other big-name aviation universities.

I can understand why a guy on the street from Aloha or ATA is ****ed that Mesaba is hiring sub-1000hr guys right now when they have thousands of hours and can't get anything to help pay their mortgage. I can also understand why Mesaba is doing it...

Things are tough right now, and probably going to get worse before they get better. "These are the times that try men's souls"...and if one is dedicated to staying in aviation then you'll find a way to persevere and be successful on the other side of the downturn.

Brilliant! Good morals...those are acquired in college.:rolleyes:

You probably didn't mean it that way, but it does come across like that.

So you give advice to young college kids, then young college kids go and get hired by a regional and you are grumpy? It seems like these kids don't care what you are saying.

How many times in the last year has someone sat in an interview waiting room listening to some bitter person complain about how bad the industry has become, and then talk about how they deserve better than this job, and they have been forced to take a lateral or a step down just to keep flying. Then they get turned down while some younger kid with a good attitude goes to training.

Why are you surprised again?

No, they pass on experienced professionals because they won't put up with the complete crap treatment that some regionals impress upon their employees. They also know that a 500-hour kid isn't marketable for better jobs and there is a higher likelihood of retaining him versus a 10,000-hour guy who's going to jump to the better job once he's offered it.

They see people like you as a financial opportunity. It has NOTHING to do with morals.

You have to look at it from managements perspective here. They are looking at you as a cost vs benefit. The amount it costs to train you vs the amount of time you can be online generating revenue.

Think about this hypothetical situation. (BTW I'm guessing on some of my numbers)

Pilot A is a 10,000hr former 737CA w/ ATA
Mesaba hires pilot A and spends $15,000 training him in the CRJ. He stays for a year and a half and leaves for a corporate job. Now mesaba has to spend $15,000 to train his replacement.

Pilot B is a 700hr CFI
Mesaba hires pilot B and spends $15,000 training him in the CRJ. He is a FO for three years and then upgrades. He stays as a Captain for 10 years and then moves on to the Majors (they gotta hire sometime:rolleyes:). Mesaba now has to spend $15,000 to train his replacement.

The point is that with lowtime guys management knows that those pilots are more likely going to stick around longer (on the line generating revenue) than those higher time guys. As an added bonus too, management and scheduling may be able to pull a few fast ones on pilot B, that Pilot A might call the BS flag on.

Two words: Law School.

Agreed...which is why I said "I also understand why Mesaba is doing it." It simply makes financial sense to hire someone who will stay 5+ years vs. somebody you know will be gone at their first opportunity for a job providing better compensation and/or lifestyle.

No matter the reason, it still looks crappy to the highly experienced pilots collecting unemployment right now while 22-23 year olds are getting hired by the couple 121 airlines hiring.

(and no regional airline, Mesaba included, wants captains with 13 years longevity there. They'd rather you upgrade in 2-3 years, be a CA for 2-4 years, and be gone before you start really costing them in wages and vacation)

Me thinks you might be on to something there... :D

Cairo..........Thats in Egypt

Because the low time noob has stars in his eyes and thinks it's the greatest thing ever to be in an rj. They overlook the pathetic pay, horrible lifestyle, horrible treatment, and put up with whatever is dished out their way and happily beg for more - because 'flying an rj is so cool!'.

The more experienced people have been there, done that, and won't happily bend over for the companies abuses. Companies know they treat pilots like crap, they know that given time most pilots wake up to this reality and their BS threshold is lowered. The companies want to hire those that are clueless and will eat [poop] with a big smile on their face while thinking they are living the high life.

They couldn't care less about experience. They just need a warm body in that right seat and leave it mostly up to the captain to make sure he stays in line and doesn't press too many buttons.

Lots of young people leave this industry the first year because the they don't like it. Lots of younger unexperienced people get fired for doing immature things (trying to get through security drunk, running around streets naked, etc.). The training costs to replace these people is higher than re-training a high time more mature pilot with 3000 hours who stays for two years. I don't buy the arguments that many have offered.

Older, experienced Pilots drink too...and they often have more to drink about!

Famous manager at ASA was quoted as something something to the effect of the Regional airlines are nothing more than a stepping stone and we count on 5 year turnover from every employee as a fact of business. Kind of makes you really not care about fuel savings, better work rules, or the like due to the fact that their showing you the door in essense.

True, but age has taught them how to hide their drinking better.

How about we all just talk about how sweet JetPipe's avatar is? I think everyone can agree there eh?

Just MY buck oh five.

One of the funniest things I've read on here in a while. :D

:D I do enjoy any time JetPipeOverht posts. His avatar is a thing of beauty.

Three Words: Aviation Law School. You'll have PLENTY of business for the unforeseen future!

My wife is an aviation legal professional, and though she's not a lawyer (paralegal) she is a licensed commercial pilot with turbine experience and that has helped her immensely in getting hired by law firms and companies that specialize within aviation.

Aviation law is a very narrow niche in the legal field; there are only a handful of firms that actively practice such law and they're pretty much in major metros. The other option are companies and pilot unions.

I seem to recall hearing ALPA was paying some or all the cost for a Mesa FO to attend law school...don't know if that was urban legend or what but it may be something for someone to look into.

The early years of being a lawyer are often worse than the early years of being a pilot; you may make more coin but the hours and workload are FAR worse.

I'm here for you all....

woooo...hooo lets hear it for jet pipes avatar....:D

Except Eagle, apparently this never dawned on them. Only false hopes of flowing into AA.

Nobody over the age of 30 uses a Team America: World Police catch phrase as the title of their post...

So what were you like 8 when the first South Park episode aired?

Jet bridge programs. Hell yeah!

I was a freshman in high school in 1997.