A Call to All Professional Airline Pilots
 

A Call to all Professional Airline Pilots

The Mesa pilots just voted in a 21 month contract. In September, 2010, there will be 12 ALPA airlines simultaneously involved in section six negotiations. Those of us involved have never had such a good “pattern bargaining” situation. We can join together and bring the airline pilot profession back from the dead only if we support each other in our struggles instead of encouraging division. I can guarantee everyone that it is the Mesa pilot group’s goal to obtain the industry leading contract.

I personally voted against this TA because I hoped we could send it back for a revision and do better. In fact I was one of the most vocal trying to persuade my fellow pilots to send it back to the negotiating committee. I am a proud member of the “Mesa 400” but I will not stand by and let people continue to insult me and my coworkers when it is obvious the ones throwing stones simply do not know of the facts or history of our struggles.

Some of the remarks I have endured and treatment I have received from my fellow aviators have prompted me to respond in an attempt to stop the divisiveness. I have so far dismissed the anti-Mesa sentiments as a few disgruntled ignoramuses but over the years I have begun to notice a chorus of hate directed at Mesa. The airline industry whipsaw strategy is slowly winning. Let me tell you that the pilots of Mesa have as much control over our management as your pilot group, ours just happens to be more hostile. The name-calling and hatefulness has to end if we are to improve this profession.

First let me address the idea that Mesa pilots are the “lowest” and “bottom feeders” and that we are “dragging the industry down" or "lowering the bar.” I agree that Mesa pilots have had to endure some of the harshest working conditions in the industry, but I suspect that most of the people posting disparaging comments have no idea what the Mesa pilots have gone through and fought for over the years. If they only knew that we behave as any pilot group would under the same circumstances they would support us instead of revile us. To criticize, stereotype and demonize any group of people without walking in their shoes is just ignorant.

Here are a few facts that may interest you:

FACT: Mesa Air Group pilots operate under arguably the most anti-union management in the industry. In 2003 the MAG non-union Freedom Airlines certificate was receiving, staffing and scheduling 1.5 CRJ-900 aircraft a month during our post 9/11 contract negotiations (See GoJet / TranStates).

FACT: There were never more than 90 Alter-Ego Freedom Airlines pilots in existence ever (the majority of those 90 being street hires).FACT: Mesa Air Group pilots secured the strongest scope language in the industry concerning alter-ego carriers in our 2003 contract.

FACT: Mesa Air Group pilots stopped Alter-Ego Freedom Airlines operations, captured their flying under ALPA and sacrificed any improvements in our original substandard contract in order to do so. This happened with the Bush administration stating that the appointed NMB would allow no strikes due to the post 9/11 national security issues. We were highly encouraged by all of the other ALPA MEC’s to accept so that others would have a template for alter-ego contract language. If only TranStates now had our scope.

FACT: Mesa Air Group pilots contributed portions of their paychecks to the Comair pilot group strike fund during Comair’s hard won contract.

FACT: Mesa Air Group pilots voted to integrate the furloughed CCAir pilot group into our seniority list after our management purchased, disbanded, and took the routes of CCAir. It was the right thing to do (I personally have over ten former CCAir pilots on the roster ahead of me in my base and most of them have a CCAir hire date after mine).

FACT: Mesa Air Group pilots were offered and declined to discuss USAirways 737 flying during USAirways’ bankruptcy. In return I get denied jumpseats.

FACT: Mesa Air Group Pilots have endured some of the harshest work rules in the industry and operated with integrity and professionalism.

I have seen Mesa pilots uprooted and replaced in domiciles too numerous to count and that flying be covered by other express code-share partners. Not once have I heard anyone at MESA mention that they thought that flying was “theirs”. I don’t know of any Mesa Air Group pilot personally responsible for making the decision to replace another code-share partner’s flying.

To sum it up I ask all of you to take a minute and consider reaching out with a helping hand instead of offering rude looks and ignorant comments.

There may just come a day when Mesa Air Group pilots have the industry leading contract and hopefully they will treat you with respect and understanding when you suddenly find yourself with “the worst contract in the industry”.

Now as for this new contract we have. Like I said before I voted against it. I don’t like it and I too wanted trip/duty rigs, etc. I too wanted stronger language protection because I have no trust of this management. Well now we have it until September, 2010 when we begin again. Yes I agree we probably could have done better but for those of you who continue to claim that the Mesa pilots voted in "the worst contract in the industry" consider this:

NO CONCESSION 21 month contract (Amendable Sept., 2010)

Scheduled or Actual pay which would increase average pay a minimum of 8.5% -20%

Line Guarantee with full cancellation pay and equipment pay protection

11 days off minimum for line holders and reserve
The current industry average line holder minimum days off is 10.8
Mesa line holder min. better than Great Lakes, Mesaba, Piedmont, Pinnacle, PSA, and Skywest
Same as ASA, Comair, Eagle, Gulfstream, Island Air, and TranStates

The current industry average reserve days off is 10.6
Mesa reserve min. now better than Great Lakes, Horizon, Island Air, Piedmont, Pinnacle, PSA, Skywest, and TranStates

Line Holder Min monthly guarantee 75.83 (#2 in industry)

Industry Leading Reassignment Pay
Company may reassign line holders during their trip only under two conditions: When operational on time schedule is threatened D+0 (United) or A-14 (USAirways)
Any other reassignment considered improper reassignment and paid on top of line guarantee at 200%.

Industry Leading Premium Pay 200%

Bid for Training event, seniority based, electronic Above Industry Average

Industry Average Vacation Accrual

New version of Navtech PBS
Other users: JetBlue, Delta, and soon Hawaiian

Industry Leading Pairing construction:
ALPA Scheduling Committee released monthly

Schedule Enhancement by FLICA for three days: no drop limit.
From Southwest Contract. No human intervention.
Only other Schedule Enhancement is Comair, ExpressJet, and Pinnacle

1 for 1 hold back provisions paid immediately and all passovers will be paid equal pay within 120 days. Industry Leading and Only carrier to have it.

Industry Leading Reserve Min monthly guarantee 75.83


So call your reps and tell them you want what Mesa got, ha!

Seriously, we all got into this game for the same reasons. I have friends at almost every airline out there. We all love to fly airplanes for a living and we all want to be treated with the respect we deserve. Let’s all make an effort to “raise the bar” but please place the blame on the anti-labor managements and we’ll collectively improve this profession and make it enjoyable again. The next time you see a Mesa pilot instead of looking at their i.d. and quickly looking away, try to look them in the eye and say "congratulations on the contract, good luck in 2010."

Thanks for your time,

Winglet

Good post and good luck :)

So where exactly does the blame belong?

I may be wrong here bc i dont understand the lingo... but im pretty sure comair has a min reserve guarantee of 75 hours monthly. correct me if im mistaken.

I find it difficult to understand how you can be proud of getting a contract that in some way resembles the next worst contract in the industry NOW. You guys just went to bad from worst and thats not because your heros and tough negotiators.

I do understand it's a step in the right direction but come on with that post, take it easy a bid dude, your no southwest yet. The day you stop letting JO taking the best of you and actually determine your own self worth at a reasonable rate is the day you should be bragging and stepping up for the Mesa logo, until then Mesa is the bottom line.

A better Mesa contract means a better industry for all of us, as they say, "your only as strong as your dumbest competitor." We're all pulling for Mesa and are here to help, but we cant hold your hand and check the "No" box.

Goodluck

You can write a book if you want. The fact is that Mesa pilots passed this TA. No one cares about the trimmings, they care about the main course dinner. Up until today most gave the benefit of doubt to the mesa pilots of being abused and that it isn't their fault they had to work under the 03/08 contract, it was job preservation. This TA however confirms what most already have known about Mesa pilots and will now be justified. I'm sorry you're going to have to be a part of it, you sound like one of the good guys.

who do you work for again?

The only thing that bothers me about this whole TA is that if MESA does end up in the crapper...that JO is gonna use that TA against you guys....claiming to the stock holders that the Airline went under because of the Pilots

Somebody's been drinking the ALPA juice...

If you only knew...
 

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I agree this new contract is substandard, that's why I voted NO. I'm trying to get you to understand that spewing hateful rhetoric only strengthens management's position. It passed and now we have to live with it for a while. Read my previous posts if you want to know where I stand on this issue...

Good Luck...
Winglet

Is there a copy of the TA that we can download?

[quote=winglet;516238]A Call to all Professional Airline Pilots

The MESA pilots just voted in a 21 month contract. In September, 2010, there will be 12 ALPA airlines simultaneously involved in section six negotiations. Those of us involved have never had such a good “pattern bargaining” situation. We can join together and bring the airline pilot profession back from the dead only if we support each other in our struggles instead of encouraging division. I can guarantee everyone that it is the MESA pilot group’s goal to obtain the industry leading contract.

Awesome post! We have to look beyond our parochial petty differences and focus on how to all move forward together.



[quote=macflyer;516265]I find it difficult to understand how you can be proud of getting a contract that in some way resembles the next worst contract in the industry NOW. You guys just went to bad from worst and thats not because your heros and tough negotiators.

Speaking for myself, I am proud to be part of a pilot group that stood firm and ended an alter-ego non-union operation and halted management's plans to cherry pick mainline aircraft flying during the USAirways reorganization.

They had to swallow some bitter pills to do it, but the profession is better off. If more pilot groups had done so, we would all be better off today. This new contract is one of the few non-concessionary agreements of the decade.


It is easy to ignore the facts that Winglet has laid out and heckle from the cheap seats on an anonyous forum. Does denigrating an entire pilot group make you feel better about your own dismal situation?

The Dash Whisperer

You are correct but wiglet mistyped. Our guarantee for lineholders and reserve guys is 75.83 hours, and 11 days off.

YOU have control over who you will work for... do not even try to pass this along as it's managements fault. You enable them to whipsaw by working there. You can yell and stamp your feet all you want, then fact is that without YOU there would be no MESA; and the rest of the industry would be better of with them gone.

You have some nice ideals, put your money where your mouth is, and resign.

I think I see the point of this post.... but you're giving to the wrong people. Many of these people are closed minded. You need to get your MEC to talk to TSAs MEC to talk to RAHs MEC etc. Get all the MEC chairs in the same room with what they all want pay- and work-rules wise, come up with one contract that each regional will present to their airline, and make no concessions to management. If they don't accept it, all regionals can go on strike at the same time.

This is what is presently happening with the Fee For Departure Task Force. Except for the "all regionals can go on strike at the same time" part.;)

You've got to be kidding. Asserting that someone should resign with almost no chance at gaining another job in these terrible times is absurd. I agree that the industry would be a better place if Mesa pilots were absorbed into better companies, but asking someone to quit is absolutely ridiculous.

I think we've seen especially in the last 2 years, that there will always be another pilot waiting in the wings for your job. Half of Mesa's pilot group could quit, and management would fill those positions within months with eager flight instructors just jumping at the chance to touch a jet. In fact, management counts on that to a certain degree (ala McDonalds cheap labor)

Mesa pilots will never have my respect; You can pat yourselves on the back and trumpet how great this is but this is simply too little too late.

This TA, while it does offer improvements to the current Mesa contract, offers minor improvements on contracts that have not only been in place for almost 8 years but have since become concessionary.

You want my respect, then get a contract that has the following, amongst other things:

Block or better, on a leg by leg basis.
Trip and duty rigs.
Industry average pay rates + an increasing % each year.
Hotel rooms on sits in excess of 4.5 hours.
Full CX and DH pay.
150% open time pay.

Your contract has been the yard stick with which the rest of the regional industry has been beaten around the balls with, for the last few years.

You may choose to claim that you are not responsible for the way your company is run BUT we all have a choice. If you've chosen to work for Mesa, then you are either totally blind to the choices or you've accepted the conditions. Which in my book, is no different to holding your hands up and saying it's ok!

You are correct IFLY22. I mistyped. Min reserve line guarantee is 75.83.

Industry Standard Is The Word!
 

Fellow Aviators,

It appears some of you are misunderstanding my original post. Let me try and clarify for you. I am as angry or even angrier than the rest of the pilots in this industry but try to understand that many of us are doing the best we can under the circumstances.

I actually agree with many of the points that some of the anti-MESA posters on this board are making but please don't stereotype 1200 people. It's a small mind that can't differentiate between individuals. If you wan't to see who can out bash MESA I'll win that fight.

I am simply asking you to look at the history and just be thankful that you are currently in a good position with your management and your contract. Telling people to quit their career is not going to solve anything. There will simply be replacement. Hopefully it isn't you. There are a lot of good people at MESA who have been fighting the fight a lot longer than many people posting on these forums have been alive.

My point is that as long as we let the anti-labor airline managements whipsaw us as they've been doing we'll never get anywhere. There will always be a "best contract" and a "worst contract". Instead of expending your energy bashing the poor suckers with the "worst contract" use some constructive criticism and do what you can do on your end to help get them that elusive "industry standard" contract.

As I said before, there will be twelve airlines in section six negotiations in September, 2010. I agree that we should let our individual MEC's know that this will be an excellent oportunity to standardize the contracts at that time. That is what "pattern bargaining" means.

I am attempting to get the regional pilots to stop the hateful nonsense and instead educate the new guys. Let's pick each other up instead of trying to knock each other down. Half of the guys I fly with don't have a rudimentary knowledge of what a contract is much less any idea of how negotiations work. There are thousands of young men and women out there that will work for the first airline that calls them back. Management counts on that. They also count on you to teach them how to hate the other regionals.

Many of the newer pilots have no idea of what a pre 9/11 airline industry was like. It was a much more enjoyable environment. Pilots from different companies would go out of their way for each other in every aspect. I'd like to see those days return and I believe it is possible with a little education on how the Railway Labor Act works and the techniques and tactics of the union-busters. Every time a pilot insults another pilot a union-buster chuckles to himself a little.

Be thankful that you are not the current scapegoat in the industry and let's hope that we can come together with an industry standard that will illiminate the hatefullness that has been growing amongst us.

Good Luck,

Winglet

[quote=Mason32;516383]YOU have control over who you will work for... You enable them to whipsaw by working there. You can yell and stamp your feet all you want, then fact is that without YOU there would be no MESA; and the rest of the industry would be better of with them gone.
quote]

If no one would fly for any regional carrier, then all jets would be flown by major airline pilots at major airline rates of pay. You too are part of the problem. Put your money where your mouth is and resign.

Your silly post overlooks the economic realities of the industry today.

Ignorance must be bliss, right? These boards are full of closed-minded fools like yourself.

Why does everyone feel the need to type "Mesa" in all caps? To the best of my knowledge, its not an acronym. So I gotta know, why the caps? Same with "scab". Maybe banging on that shift key helps get out some frustration when people are talking about Mesa and scabs. Just thought I'd ask:D

And so this post isn't totally irrelevant, the TA looks like a stepping stone and I hope you guys view it as such. LOTS of room for improvement before you can consider yourself on the "good" side of the spectrum. As far as I'm concerned you're still the outlier bringing down the "industry average". Heres to hoping you can make it happen.

Winglet, amazing post. I honestly couldn't have said it better myself. I'm seriously impressed.

Any regional pilot that says a Mesa pilot should resign for the sake of the industry needs to look in the mirror. Guess who's really driving down wages and QOL for airline pilots? The entire regional airline industry. Before the regionals came around life was way better. Regional airlines fly mainline routes for a fraction of the cost and for a fraction of the pay and QOL of a mainline pilot. It's the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion. Wake up people. You should be happy that there are people like Winglet and myself fighting to make Mesa a better place, why would you want someone who is actively trying to change the company for the better to resign? So a newer, less industry educated pilot can come in and vote on the TA? Think about what you people are saying! And trust me when I say this, even if Mesa went *poof* and disappeared off the face of the planet tomorrow, another airline would be all to eager to come along and fill Mesa's shoes. Probably with a lower pay and QOL. This contract is not worse than our last as many have insinuated. It is better, just not as good as I would have liked. I can assure you if I still work for Mesa in 2010, I will fight even harder for the new contract.

Keep up the good work Winglet.

I work for a "leading regional airline" in terms of payscales. While I wasn't there first hand to witness this event, a captain involved in our negotiations told me our management told them they wanted to move our payscale down to mirror Mesa's. Their reasoning? If Mesa can pay their pilots sh*t wages and they still come to work for them, why should we be paying our pilots a penny more? I am glad to see you guys working to improve things, and realize you voted no, but if you think your p.o.s. contract doesn't have a negative effect on the industry you are foolish.

Is there nothing better to do then worry about who to blame?

Can anyone point out the horrible things about this? I hear a lot of "how bad it is" but I am not seeing anyone actually saying this is what's wrong with it. Its better then what they had. I don't get re-assigned where I work but if I did I'd be looking forward to it at 200%. In fact when I did work at Mesa/AirMidwest I liked flying around in the right seat of a 1900 for $42 an hour if I got something added to my day. Cliff notes version please.

Aren't you working under a contract that has a duration of 16 YEARS!?! I don't think you have room to talk.

I'm sure all these Mesa bashers have plenty of respect for Mesa pilots when it comes to commuting home on a Mesa flight ;)

Oh very good point. MANY, MANY times I hear SkyWest pilots complaining, flicking me off when we are taxiing, cutting us off and intentionally blocking our radio calls. They are all very nice and courteous when they need the jumpseat though.

Winglet - thanks for some nice posts. I appreciate your attitude and I think it's great that there are guys like you out there on the line with me. I just hope we can do our part to help more pilots feel this way.

I know, its sad. I have never understood how "professionals" who are highly skilled to work in a relatively risky environment (compared to, say, sitting in a cube) can be so immature...
...This is coming from a SkyWest pilot.

I second Esaecker's statement. As one of the pilots on whom's back a skywest pilot is riding on, I don't understand how they would have a leg to stand on, nevertheless a middle finger or thumb to use.

When I first got on the line and started seeing that I was floored myself. Now - granted this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time, I've only seen it on very few occasions, and I haven't had a problem with blocked calls in a while either. I'm sure SkyWest is a great group of pilots, with the exception of a few bad apples which unfortunately all airlines have. Perhaps when we fly with someone who is a bit childish we can chastise them for it instead of laughing and egging them on.

From a former XJ'er, all I have to say is best of luck. I just rode ya'all from PHX to TUS, and it was a non-eventful flight. Pleasant staff, and professional from the time I checked in to the time I disembarked. FYI--I saw you just hired our old CEO Foley as your new COO. This may or may not have anything to do with your current situation, but then again I dont believe in fate. You will need to watch him like a hawk. Everything he touches, and I mean EVERYTHING, turns to sh^#! All you have to do is do a google search on him and what he has done-or lack thereof.

I saw him yesterday for the first time - and I should have gone over to say hello, but I was busy doing some other stuff at corporate. I've heard good and bad things about him. It's not like I can do anything about his presence whether I like it or not - so I'm just hoping for the best. Apparently, he IS doing a good job, and is making a big effort to turn things around. He's done the pilots quite a few favors already actually. Based on what I know of him so far, it may not be a bad thing he is here. Only time will tell though.

I'm amazed stuff like this actually happens... Unless you fly for gojet, nobody should be giving you the finger.... That's ridiculous...

Well if thats the case, then great. Hope it continues. All I have to go on is 7.5 years of him running mesaba, then MAIR the holding company. Maybe he's seen the light of what results when management works with labor groups.

Agreed. We shouldn't let the immature and unprofessional conduct of a few pilots divide the rest of us.

As ALPA pilots our choice is clear; either we find a way to work together or we will continue to freefall together in a race to the bottom.

Last October at the ALPA BOD meeting 15 MEC's on the Fee-For-Departure Committee met to formulate a strategy to combat many of the problems noted in this thread.

Fee-for-Departure-Carrier MEC Summit

Quote:

---

October 19, 2008 - More than 120 pilots arrived in Las Vegas before the 42nd Board of Directors meeting began to participate in a summit hosted by ALPA’s fee-for-departure-carrier MECs on October 19. Status representatives, MEC officers, and other pilots from all 15 of these pilot groups, along with ALPA National officers and representatives from ALPA National committees and other pilot groups, met to continue their work coordinating their negotiating, contract enforcement, and support activities. This was the third meeting of the FFDC MECs in their ongoing effort to advance their goal of building career security and opportunities for their pilots.

“The FFDC MECs have shown the courage to lead their pilots by working together to find new ways to protect and enhance the careers of all airline pilots,” said ALPA President Capt. John Prater, who kicked off the meeting. “Their coordinated efforts continue to prove that when one pilot group has a solution, we all have a solution.”

Summit participants received presentations on the demographic trends among FFDC pilot groups and the economic outlook for the industry. Representatives from the contract survey and contract template working groups reported on the outcome of their work in these areas. Capt. Tom Wychor (MSA) facilitated the group’s discussions on the strategic plan, career protection coordination, and advancing the group’s mutual goals through continued collaboration, consultation and discussion among the FFDC MECs, the ALPA Collective Bargaining Committee (CBC), and representatives from other ALPA pilot groups. The FFDC MECs will continue their work and plan to meet again in 2009.

---

I'm going to have to pinch myself to make sure this thread is real. Is this really a group of civilized pilots having a civil conversation? For the most part this discussion has been professional and well spoken, so somethings up.

I've always said that helping us at Mesa in our fight against a hostile management and supporting us as we try to exact change around here will reap far greater rewards for this industry than wishing for Mesa to go away and for hundreds of your fellow pilots to be without jobs. Luckily it's been proven to me time and time again that the Mesa-bashers that frequent this site and the attitudes that accompany them are part of a very small minority of pilots. The vast majority I have met throughout my travels have been sympathetic to Mesa pilots and the challenges we face in dealing with our company. I think I can speak for most Mesa pilots when I say thank you to those of you that understand what we as Mesa pilots are trying to do.

I have never seen or heard of a Mesa pilot flipping anyone off or denying a jumpseat based on carrier affiliation. This kind of behavior is childish and does nothing but make you look like an idiot. What if a passenger sees you? We already have a hard enough time trying to make the public aware of how underpaid and undervalued we are. Keep flipping people off from the cockpit and spreading that image of how a "professional airline pilot" acts. By doing so you singlehandedly are lowering public perceptions of pilots and undermining the very ground you claim to so passionately defend. Of course I'm speaking to the extreme minority here. For the rest of you who do act like professionals, thank you. We need all the help we can get.

No no, let me clarify.... I am a Mesa pilot - and I was flipped off by SkyWest once in ORD. It's never happened again though. We were pushing back into the alley from one of the Fox gates, and they were taxiing into the ramp. We were blocking their gate as we were starting so when we were head to head the captain flipped us off. I couldn't believe it. We just ignored him, went over to the east line and went on with our day.