Best airline commuting from AVL
 

OK, I know that it will probably be a long time before I can get an airline job so please don't turn this into a bashing session. I currently have 1100 TT w/300 ME (almost all as instructor), and I expect to have about 1400/500 by the end of March. I love the Asheville area of Western North Carolina, and my wife and I would love to live there. Plus, we have family that would rent us an apartment for VERY cheap (and maybe THEN I could afford to go to the regionals.) :)
SO - whenever the market turns around (and assuming that hiring actually resumes for guys with my entry level experience ;)), which airline would be good to work for commuting from AVL? Gleaning from the AVL website and airline routemaps, I believe Expressjet, ASA, Chatauqua, Pinnacle, and PSA all have flights to AVL. With these guys, I could bid for a base in EWR, IAH, ATL, CVG, DTW, MSP, or CLT with direct flights from AVL. I know I could work for a different regional, but would it make life easier as a commuter to work for one of the guys that have their own flights to AVL? Who does overnights in AVL?

Thanks in advance for helping.

Don't Forget about the mighty Piedmont Dash 8 300 and we usually can take jump seater's when the 300 goes in.

Do you like working for Piedmont? Do they have any overnights in AVL?

Usually if you work for the regional carrier serving the route you get priority on the nonrev list and almost always the jumpseat. ASA lets you reserve the jumpseat a couple days ahead of time and as long as you have that reservation you bump any walk-up jumpseat request (except the Feds obviously). Any RJ on a short flight with an alternate will probably be weight restricted, so keep that in mind.

That's good news. Thanks.

I forgot to mention - with the way that things are shaping up for the airlines, I'm wondering if it might be necessary to just wait and start at one of those regionals where it would be reasonable to stay for a career. By the time anyone is hiring again, I'll be 34 or maybe even 35. By the time I would be "eligible" for a mainline job, it might not be worth the additional sacrifice in pay and QOL. I'd probably be better off high on the seniority list of a good regional. At least then I have a slightly better chance of avoiding furlough :(.

your best bets would be some one with an ATL CVG or CLT base. the farther out ones like MSP or IAH would have some pretty good weight restrictions im guessing specially when the weather gets bad.

I'd go with someone with a CLT base. That way, if you miss the jumpseat, you can just drive.

So, in short, PSA or Mesa. With Mesa, there's a very good chance you couldn't hold CLT @ first, and Mesa's US Air contract may not be a guaranteed thing over the long term (Doug Parker, CEO of US Airways, will "explore all options" when Mesa's contract comes up for re-bid - in 2011 I believe), so . . . PSA.

PSA will not only give you the CLT base, but also the ability to get priority on all US Airways flights, including the jumpseat. While many PSA flights from AVL-CLT or vice versa will be weight restricted, the Dash flights operated by Piedmont, as another poster mentioned, are more dependable. As a PSA pilot, you'll be able to see the loads on the AVL-CLT flights, as well as get priority for the jumpseat and the cabin non-rev options.

I bet you'll drive most of the time, in the end. AVL flights mean get to the airport 1 hour early, which means leave 1.5 hours before departure from the house to account for parking and traffic on occasion (the interstate interchange for I-26 is right next to the airport, so it backs up on occasion). Then the flight is about 1 hour, gate to gate (never underestimate how long the 20 mile final and slowing to 170 way out in CLT will take, though maybe the new runway will help). In the same amount of time, you could drive to CLT, park your car, and be done with it.

I have no idea what regional to suggest but you can try passrider.com and imput AVL and the domiciles for the regionals you want to consider and that will show you all daily flights at all times for all carriers. might take a bit of time to resarch but you should be able to get some kind of idea which would fit you best. Good Luck. :)

Thanks for the input, especially regarding PSA. The only problem with driving to CLT is that I will be able to qualify for food-stamps as a new FO with a wife & two kids. We have one car - why drive? That's gas money that I won't have and then my wife would not have the car for a few days?

I do like Piedmont it isn't as bad as everyone says, Your Best bet would be a the crew base in ROA and we are taking applications. The Dash is a fun plane to fly. You also get the mainline pass travel priority at Piedmont.

I haven't seen a weight restriction at XJT in over a year FYI, if hiring spools up in a few years apply everywhere and see who interviews you. If you are set in staying in AVL then do some research on who you would want to commute on. Having the ability to drive a couple hours is huge for your QOL, mabye when that time comes you should invest in a used car......

You think KROA would be a reasonable commute from KAVL?

Yeah, unless you want to drive to new bern.

I wouldn't move to Asheville then. Chances are very good that you will not be able to get out on a flight at some point. Your only option then would be to drive. Charlotte is the senior base and might take longer than normal to get than Knoxville (115 miles away).

On that note, I do not remember any flight I flew into AVL being weight restricted but, I do remember that it is one of my favorite overnights!:D

Not trying to dump on you, but if you're that tied to the area you might want to think of trying different segments of the industry. A fractional ownership company or corporate outfit might be the best fit. From past experience (that I'm sure most on this forum can concur with) , I can tell you that the airline industry is not one that makes putting down roots easy. Certainly not in the beginning at least. Even when you are senior at your airline that doesn't guarantee anything. Mgt. will close and open various bases at the drop of a hat if necessary. It's just the nature of the beast. Embrace it, hate it, or deal with it. Your choice.

Eck4Life hits the nail on the head. I've ended up in some very odd bases I never thought I would (when you're junior, you go where they tell you to go)...in fact, I've yet to end up at the base I thought I would go to originally. I don't want to rain on the parade either, but don't choose a company because of their base...that usually ends up leading to frustration in the end. Choose the best company period, one with good stability, good work rules, etc. I know that's hard to choose with regionals as things can change quickly, but for the sake of your wife and kids, try to avoid someone that's going to move your base every 6 months and then furlough you anyway...I've been there :rolleyes:. For a single guy, it's tolerable...but ask yourself can you and your family handle that?
Best of luck! Instructing is THE way to start, you learn a lot! Hopefully, you'll "step up" sooner than later. When the industry is going well, I think it's one of the best jobs around. When it's lousy...it's really lousy.

Ok guys, fair enough. Which regional would you suggest for stability and sanity whenever hiring resumes? With the state of the majors, I'm quite ready to accept the possibility of staying there for a career.
Also, are you saying that it would be nonsense for me to hope for a reasonable commute out of AVL with any regional? Are you saying I'll be better off moving to a base because of my family?
As for instructing being the way to start, I "started" working in the flight training business in 2001 as a manager. Many of the career pilots that trained at the schools I managed have been at the regionals for years. I only have 1100 hrs because I rode the desk for so many years. I want to fly more. I'm not against going back to management, I just LOVE flying and I really want to. I also want to see the world. But if I go back to management, it HAS to be for a company that actually cares about excellence (instead of just talking about it.)

Commuting sucks. Period.

If you're going to commute, try and go somewhere that isn't an outstation base. Those will likely have early starts/late finishes so you're going to lose an extra day on each end to commuting. Regardless of where you are you're going to be on reserve so you'll probably need to get there the day before because that 4am start to reserve doesn't mesh well with flights. 11-12 days off will really be like 6 days off by the time you factor travel days into the equation.

Commuting is also more expensive. That money you'll save on cheap rent will quickly go to a crashpad. You're going to have to get there a day early so you'll have to eat out more. Unless you're in a city that has a good mass transit system (ORD or JFK) you'll likely need a crashpad car. If you're in one of those cities you still have to factor the cost of some sort of mass transit pass (I think it's like $80/month in Chitown). If you're close enough to drive you'll see mx on your vehicle go up as well.

What regional is a safe bet? None of them. Five to ten years ago everybody wanted to go to Comair and Eagle. Then it was Expressjet. When I was hired at RAH last year they were expecting to hire 1000. I just got my recall letter today and there are still about 100 behind me waiting for one.

So yeah, if you have a wife and kids that you like to spend time with you might want to consider moving them. If you don't feel like putting that stress on them maybe a corporate operation on your home field would be a better option. A few friends have gone that route and while they don't know when they'll be gone in advance, they are usually home more than I was/will be.

whichever one you like that will take you! your phrase above is not applicable in the industry:D (on a side note just make sure they have a commuter clause and you should be ok i had to commute from SAN to CVG and there was only 1 direct flight each day, never had a problem)

As one of my captains told me once; always keep your main goal in sight. I think too many people here get too shortsighted at times and get caught up in all the doomsday talk. Granted we are facing tough times but this has always been a difficult industry.

If you want to work at a major do what you think will be the best route to get you there. They will hire again. When the age 65 retirements hit coupled with a recovering economy there is going to be much more leverage for pilots on both hiring and new contracts. Just position yourself so you are ready. I cringe whenever someone resigns themselves to making a career at a regional.

Well, if things will continue with CR9s, E-170/190s, etc, there won't be any major airline jobs to go to...:rolleyes:

Don't agree with you there. Being at the top of any regional isn't necessarily a must stay anymore. I know a several guys that made the jump from regional to major after 40. Thats still 25 years left. You might not be able to be CA on a 777 in the base you want but you can still have a good career. Also, being junior at a major is alot different then at a regional. I think the main reason people stay is because of the pay cut to first year majors. But in most cases in year 2 your making more than a senior captain at a regional. So if you plan for the first year pay cut it's definitely doable. I just talked with a friend of mine at Delta who worked over 9 years at a regional. He's 42 now and been at Delta almost 2 years. He's flying international on the 76 and couldn't be happier. He said it was a hard thing to leave a stable job at the top of a regional and as a line check airman, but said it was the best decision he's ever made.

As far as regionals go...Maybe Chatauqua(shuttle america) or ASA. they both have bases in ATL. I would stay away from the northeast commute. It can be tough and crashpads are more expensive. Or Compass if you can get on there. They have a flow up to Delta now. Good luck man. I can understand wanting to stay in AVL area. It's great up there.

Thanks for all the great input guys. It is not easy to figure out the best way to go...

Proskuneho - with your permission I'd like to rephrase your question.

"Which regional would make it possible for me to move on to the major/cargo/fractional airline of my choice the fastest which would then allow my wife and I to settle down in Asheville, NC?"

In other words, "where would I gain the required PIC time the fastest and maybe even be able to become a check airman/ioe/simulator instructor while still there?"

Needless to say, "Until I reach my final goal, my wife and I will try to live near my domicile to make sure we see each other more than once a month... "

I know this is not what you wanted to hear but do not postpone your progression for the quality of life issues - aim really high right now while you can.

While I am at it - since you like Asheville so much do not forget Pace Airlines based out of Winston-Salem - in the past they hired a few CFIs, I know things are different right now but it's a tiny company where connections mean everything, so start networking right now! I used to fly there and had a blast.

Good luck to you!

Had to add some more... I was only a few years younger than you are now when I started flying, I'm now at Big Brown and although I don't take anything in life for granted and realize things can change on a dime, overall I'm very happy with my career choices.

As a previous recruiter for a small regional I would like to ask you to re-read your above statement again.

You're so unsure of yourself and your true potential that you're willing to settle for "less" just so you don't 'get burned' later on. A low self-esteem attitude shines through a person during an interview; if that's your attitude in life it'll be very hard to fake it during an interview.
Listen - if you don't believe in yourself no one else out there will believe in you either! It's that simple!

So again, set your goals very high and make sure you do not limit your career choices with quality of life issues, worry about those later in life, you're young and have plenty of time to catch up on that! If your wife has patience and understanding she'll appreciate you even more later once you succeed, and succeed you will if you truly want it.

Just my 1/2¢ which equals 1/4 €¢, 1/8₤ or 2/17¥ ;)

Great advice!

i think i can sum most of it up, you have the total time S%!& or get off the pot! youll be fine dont let your dream get away from you:D

AV8OR and teamdothis -

You guys are right. I appreciate the honest and straight forward advice. As for your comment:
I understand what you are saying. I really have no doubt that I will be a great airline pilot. I'm certainly not arrogant, I am very teachable, and I do have a very positive work history and a drive for excellence. My only concern is that there MIGHT be factors outside of my control (ie the market, etc) that might make it more reasonable to stay with a great regional. One day at a time. Wherever I get hired next, my philosophy will be the same as it is right now - if I do my best where I am at, then reputation and benefits are the natural results.

Thanks again guys. Feel free to keep moving my thinking out of the box!! :)

I don't doubt you're "teachable" and have a positive work history. I know it's hard to stay positive, especially in today's environment - however, don't worry about things you can't change. Do your best, apply EVERYWHERE once hiring resumes and let others decide if they should hire you or not.

If they do, great!
If not, try again and again...

Persistence does pay off but worrying usually does not... I think you get my point.

Good luck to you, a few years from now you'll be glad you decided to give it a shot!

Thanks. I just hope I can afford the initial step!

The "good" airlines now might very be the worst place to be a couple of months from now. Wait and see how this whole delta nwa thing works out and see if anyone else merges.... it is anybodys guess. It is a very dynamic industry.

14 years after I started my first step I'm still paying off my student loans - you can deffer student loans when your income is too low...

proskuneho 2009 is your year! i dont want to see you post again till you get your app in every single place that will accept it! good luck to you!:D

Yea if you want to fly in the regionals dont put your roots anywhere. Just plan on a 1 or 2 leg commute then you wont be disappointed. The industry can change overnight. That being said nobody gives a ****** what you fly so i would try to get on with a company that has decent second year FO pay,(not alot of movement to the left seat so its nice to make some money in the right) and a SOLID contract (rigs, pay protection, good commuter policy etc.) Good luck!

Thanks everyone. I'm planning on driving down to the career fair in Miami January 16th. I'm studying for my ATP written and plan to take it before I go. I'll probably read a few gouges too. Any more advice? Wish me luck.