|
I'll fly 75 or less to keep guys off the street, it's a shame you can't cut back enough to do the same. How do you plan on retiring if you need an extra $200 a month? Or is that your retirement money?
Anyways, to answer Tony's comments. There was an FO in my new hire class who shouldn't have made it through new hire class. They got him on IOE during upgrade after being on the airplane for 1.5 years. Some people can't cut it. Just like everyone can't be a doctor, not everyone can fly airplanes to an airline standard. So what is the deal with the website? Someone on our company forums mentioned that nothing has changed with our website and the fact we are hiring. He said they just re-posted it for 2009. I thought we pulled that off of the website once people were put in the pool. Can anyone clarify one way or the other? |
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
(Post 530555)
Having folks on the street when at least there is a distant possibility that SkW may be able to pick up flying that Mesa may not be able to provide, and that UAL has asked SkW to be ready for that possibility.
BK would result in SKW, ASA RAH, and the others fighting it out to see who can do our old flying for the lowest price. |
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
(Post 530710)
The only way SKW will get Mesa flying is if we go TU.
TU.... or any other way the airline can find to break the contract (aka Delta). BK would result in SKW, ASA RAH, and the others fighting it out to see who can do our old flying for the lowest price. Of course. I didn't suggest SkW would have exclusivity, but they most definitely would have a piece of the pie. |
Originally Posted by Koolaidman
(Post 530684)
There was an FO in my new hire class who shouldn't have made it through new hire class. They got him on IOE during upgrade after being on the airplane for 1.5 years.
What's the point? If he "shouldn't have made it", then why did he 1.5 years ago? What if he had never upgraded? Then he'd be "unworthy" for 20 years? What if he tranistioned to another airframe, and failed? He goes back to his previous "unworthy" seat. If you're suggesting that SkW just passes everybody through new hire, you're sadly mistaken. And based on your suggestion, since I failed upgrade, I should just pack my flying bags and find a new career. Like you said, not everybody is cut out for this job. So what is the deal with the website? Someone on our company forums mentioned that nothing has changed with our website and the fact we are hiring. He said they just re-posted it for 2009. I thought we pulled that off of the website once people were put in the pool. Can anyone clarify one way or the other? |
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
(Post 530718)
TU.... or any other way the airline can find to break the contract (aka Delta).
|
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
(Post 530887)
That's been an easy and cheap endeavor for them, so I understand why it would be attractive to a struggling United and USAirways.
I would bet the contract would be dropped in BK. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 530633)
If line credit vaules go below 80 hours a month then they need to furlough.
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 530633)
and the policy manual says that lineholders can expect 87 hours per month.
|
Originally Posted by Seatownflyer
(Post 530931)
B.B. from sapa forums?
haha. thats funny. relying on the policy manual? now that you've posted this they'll probably change it by tomorrow. #2 As I point out to anyone that I talk to about it. We are guaranteed 75, no more, no less. I'm so sick of hearing this 87 crap. (Also I'm a line holder in no danger of getting furloughed, and would technically benefit from higher credit lines. I'm very happily taking my 80 hour line to save us from sending guys to the street) |
[QUOTE=TonyWilliams;530722]What's the point? If he "shouldn't have made it", then why did he 1.5 years ago? What if he had never upgraded? Then he'd be "unworthy" for 20 years? What if he tranistioned to another airframe, and failed? He goes back to his previous "unworthy" seat. If you're suggesting that SkW just passes everybody through new hire, you're sadly mistaken.
And based on your suggestion, since I failed upgrade, I should just pack my flying bags and find a new career. Like you said, not everybody is cut out for this job. Buddy, I know its frustrating, but you knew the risk going into upgrade in an airplane you hadn't flown before. I'm not saying I agree with the policy, but you can't blame somebody else when you knew the rules going in. I've got my bid in for EMB CA as a CRJ only FO. It does make me a little nervous, but its a risk I'd like to take for career progression. Good luck |
I am sorry SkyWest's up or out policy is ridiculous. Everyone thinks that it's a great airline but i have never felt this small by a person in training dept. and a certain sim instructor who uses more cuss words than aviation words while he is instructing.
I am sorry, if they are professional they should get rid of that person (and I am using this word lightly) period. . This guy has and will impact the livelyhood of families, careers of pilots. I loved the people in SkyWest when i was there, except a training guy who picked on my religion , name constantly (he suggested that i should get an American name if i am flying in America now. I have been living in this country for 15 years) and this check airman.. What added insult to the injury was a certian BroFO (now CRJ FO) showing his genitelia to his classmates in the class but he is still on the property.. Skywest definately takes care of his own.. |
I'm actually with slaphappy on this one (for the first and probably last time ever).
87 vs. 75 hours does not affect me personally, just so that's clear. I always drop to mins or lower for military and/or QOL anyway. I do NOT believe that senior pilots (especially CA's with real lives and real bills) should have to live a 75-hour life on the off chance that the company might want to furlough some FOs someday. You have to understand there is a risk of getting only 75 hours (ie reserve), but I'm not going to ask folks who routinely credit over 100 by creative bidding to drop down to 75 voluntarily. What if your neighbor got layed off from his job...if he knocked on your door and asked for you to sign over 25% of your paycheck to him for the duration, what would you say? It is probably in the overall best interest of a regional pilot group to furlough rather than make drastic cuts in line credit. The senior pilots are actually the ones who are in a harder spot...they are WAY past V1 and cannot just quit to go make more money. They have few options, they have to live on what they get handed and may not have a lot of flexibility to work side jobs. The junior FOs are not really going to be harmed by furlough...they can make as much or more money working at a variety of odd jobs. Nobody works as a regional FO to make money, they do it to hold their place in line for upgrade. And if line reductions or furloughs are being debated, there is no upgrade progression anyway...might as well be home every night as opposed to commuting to domicile to sit reserve and not fly. If some furloughed FOs make the same money at outside jobs, and the remaining pilots get to keep their income level up, it's a win for everyone. I only see it this way because regional pay is so pitiful...if the average furloughed FO were going to take a pay cut, I'd be OK with reduced lines. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531137)
I'm actually with slaphappy on this one (for the first and probably last time ever).
87 vs. 75 hours does not affect me personally, just so that's clear. I always drop to mins or lower for military and/or QOL anyway. I do NOT believe that senior pilots (especially CA's with real lives and real bills) should have to live a 75-hour life on the off chance that the company might want to furlough some FOs someday. You have to understand there is a risk of getting only 75 hours (ie reserve), but I'm not going to ask folks who routinely credit over 100 by creative bidding to drop down to 75 voluntarily. What if your neighbor got layed off from his job...if he knocked on your door and asked for you to sign over 25% of your paycheck to him for the duration, what would you say? It is probably in the overall best interest of a regional pilot group to furlough rather than make drastic cuts in line credit. The senior pilots are actually the ones who are in a harder spot...they are WAY past V1 and cannot just quit to go make more money. They have few options, they have to live on what they get handed and may not have a lot of flexibility to work side jobs. The junior FOs are not really going to be harmed by furlough...they can make as much or more money working at a variety of odd jobs. Nobody works as a regional FO to make money, they do it to hold their place in line for upgrade. And if line reductions or furloughs are being debated, there is no upgrade progression anyway...might as well be home every night as opposed to commuting to domicile to sit reserve and not fly. If some furloughed FOs make the same money at outside jobs, and the remaining pilots get to keep their income level up, it's a win for everyone. I only see it this way because regional pay is so pitiful...if the average furloughed FO were going to take a pay cut, I'd be OK with reduced lines. |
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
(Post 531144)
You must have missed the part where it says guarantee is 75 hours... if you're budgeting for more than that, you have no one to complain to except yourself.
Assuming an average regional CA makes about $70...at 75 hours/month that comes out to $63K. Is that "living the dream"? That's good money if you live in a crash pad and your only hobby or activity is guitar hero...but if you get a family and a life, things will look different. Are you OK with planning $63K as your max income for the rest of your life? Be honest... |
If I get furloughed, I have nowhere to go. It is pretty much impossible to get ANY job right now. I will most likely have to sell everything I own (not much) and hopefully move in with one of my friends. I would pretty much be homeless. But it's a good thing you get to keep your 100 hour lines so you can afford your Audi RS4 and your 2 houses.
|
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531137)
I'm actually with slaphappy on this one (for the first and probably last time ever).
87 vs. 75 hours does not affect me personally, just so that's clear. I always drop to mins or lower for military and/or QOL anyway. I do NOT believe that senior pilots (especially CA's with real lives and real bills) should have to live a 75-hour life on the off chance that the company might want to furlough some FOs someday. You have to understand there is a risk of getting only 75 hours (ie reserve), but I'm not going to ask folks who routinely credit over 100 by creative bidding to drop down to 75 voluntarily. What if your neighbor got layed off from his job...if he knocked on your door and asked for you to sign over 25% of your paycheck to him for the duration, what would you say? It is probably in the overall best interest of a regional pilot group to furlough rather than make drastic cuts in line credit. The senior pilots are actually the ones who are in a harder spot...they are WAY past V1 and cannot just quit to go make more money. They have few options, they have to live on what they get handed and may not have a lot of flexibility to work side jobs. The junior FOs are not really going to be harmed by furlough...they can make as much or more money working at a variety of odd jobs. Nobody works as a regional FO to make money, they do it to hold their place in line for upgrade. And if line reductions or furloughs are being debated, there is no upgrade progression anyway...might as well be home every night as opposed to commuting to domicile to sit reserve and not fly. If some furloughed FOs make the same money at outside jobs, and the remaining pilots get to keep their income level up, it's a win for everyone. I only see it this way because regional pay is so pitiful...if the average furloughed FO were going to take a pay cut, I'd be OK with reduced lines. Rickair, I have to say thanx for all your support to all of the Junior FOs on the bottom of the seniority lists, I hope you tell this to one or a group of us in person. I mean where can we just go out and find jobs just like that? Maybe you should get a job fair together for us that has all these odd jobs out there so we can do them in our spare time, maybe you might need me to paint your house or mow your lawn. Some of the part time jobs at the retail stores are not hiring either, or if they are not someone like me with an education and part time schedule that I could work between my flying. Oh wait I could go back to instructing, but my school isnt hiring or like some friends wont let or unable to hire them back. Oh and I forgot that is located on the east coast and I live out west. Plus, why is it my fault that a senior capt couldn't seem to manage their money deep into their career? Im am not saying I need or want a hand out, or that a capt should reduce their hours to possibly save a job or two down the road (yet there is no guarantee the next day or down the road) but a little respect would be nice, that we all are trying to keep our jobs, while all the rumors about furlough are out there day after day. It's flat out survival from paycheck to paycheck for some. I guess its just simple you forgot or dont care what its like for us on the bottom of the lists for you to say that it would hurt any less. |
BH...lucky for us people like Rickair have next to no say in the matter! Keep the fingers crossed...and your toes!
|
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531185)
Nobody would work for someone who was only going to pay them 75 hours forever.
Assuming an average regional CA makes about $70...at 75 hours/month that comes out to $63K. Is that "living the dream"? That's good money if you live in a crash pad and your only hobby or activity is guitar hero...but if you get a family and a life, things will look different. Are you OK with planning $63K as your max income for the rest of your life? Be honest... I'm a 2nd almost 3rd year FO with no wife, girlfriend house or kids (that I know of), but many of my classmates had wives and or houses. I assume that the same kind of thing existed in the classes that are in jeopardy so although I don't take offense to your opinion, I vehemently disagree. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531185)
Nobody would work for someone who was only going to pay them 75 hours forever.
Assuming an average regional CA makes about $70...at 75 hours/month that comes out to $63K. Is that "living the dream"? That's good money if you live in a crash pad and your only hobby or activity is guitar hero...but if you get a family and a life, things will look different. Are you OK with planning $63K as your max income for the rest of your life? Be honest... 63,000 is a lot of money to a lot of families, my sympathies are limited. I have a lot more sympathy for the junior F/O who also has a family, you make it sound SOOO easy to just go out and get a new job, but I really doubt finding a new job is really that easy. Seniority guarantees that you are less likely to be furloughed, Seniority does not guarantee you a certain number of hours on your line. I use the word guarantee, because we already have that, and it's 75 hours. If that isn't enough income for you, go to another airline/job that will pay you more. However if job security is more important to you, than by all means stay at SkyWest and accept your 80 hour line when times are tough, and run to the bank with your 100 hour line when times are good. |
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
(Post 531303)
Seniority guarantees that you are less likely to be furloughed, Seniority does not guarantee you a certain number of hours on your line.
|
Originally Posted by BHopper88
(Post 531199)
Rickair,
I have to say thanx for all your support to all of the Junior FOs on the bottom of the seniority lists, I hope you tell this to one or a group of us in person. I mean where can we just go out and find jobs just like that? Maybe you should get a job fair together for us that has all these odd jobs out there so we can do them in our spare time, maybe you might need me to paint your house or mow your lawn. Some of the part time jobs at the retail stores are not hiring either, or if they are not someone like me with an education and part time schedule that I could work between my flying. Oh wait I could go back to instructing, but my school isnt hiring or like some friends wont let or unable to hire them back. Oh and I forgot that is located on the east coast and I live out west. Plus, why is it my fault that a senior capt couldn't seem to manage their money deep into their career? Im am not saying I need or want a hand out, or that a capt should reduce their hours to possibly save a job or two down the road (yet there is no guarantee the next day or down the road) but a little respect would be nice, that we all are trying to keep our jobs, while all the rumors about furlough are out there day after day. It's flat out survival from paycheck to paycheck for some. I guess its just simple you forgot or dont care what its like for us on the bottom of the lists for you to say that it would hurt any less. I've been at the bottom of two lists in the last five years. I've been real close to furlough, and was caught between jobs on 9/11...ie no recall to look forward to. Junior Regional FO is a crap job...you'd be surprised how easy it would be to replace that income, and get a better QOL in the bargain. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531321)
Junior Regional FO is a crap job...you'd be surprised how easy it would be to replace that income, and get a better QOL in the bargain.
Junior FO, Senior CA, it doesn't matter. We all the the same thing. Neither is a "crap job." |
Tried like hell to drop my last turn out of DEN the other day and was denied due to below min reserve coverage...checked it out on SkedPlus+ myself and there were very few reserves available system-wide. Did we give out too much vacation time or what?! It looked like nearly every reserve was flying. Pretty incredible considering I spent a few months back on reserve twiddling my thumbs.
|
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
(Post 531308)
I think seniority earns you the right to work as much or as little as you want.
|
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531321)
I don't say anything here that I wouldn't say in person. I have no stake in this either way...I'm too senior to get furloughed (barring major catastrophe) but I rarely fly more than 75 anyway.
I've been at the bottom of two lists in the last five years. I've been real close to furlough, and was caught between jobs on 9/11...ie no recall to look forward to. Junior Regional FO is a crap job...you'd be surprised how easy it would be to replace that income, and get a better QOL in the bargain. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531321)
Junior Regional FO is a crap job...you'd be surprised how easy it would be to replace that income, and get a better QOL in the bargain.
|
Originally Posted by [B
rickair7777[/B]
Junior Regional FO is a crap job...you'd be surprised how easy it would be to replace that income, and get a better QOL in the bargain.
Originally Posted by Newty
(Post 531606)
uhhhh that's gonna be a NEGATORY ghost rider!
I agree with Newty. I didn't get this job just for the pay. Yeah the whole dream job thingy comes into play but when you get right down to it, I don't work a whole lot. I don't LIKE to work a whole lot. I always tell people I didn't become an airline pilot to work. The lifestyle is enjoyable to me. I never budget or plan for anything more than guarantee. It seems wreckless in my opinion, but thats just my opinion. Where was I going with this? I don't remember. This bickering is useless and stupid. Why am I getting involved? Where's my pizza? P.S. I wish I had a dollar for every time we talked about, uh, being united, low time pilots in a crj, SJS, gojet, mesa, scope, regionals diong mainline flying (same as scope? I dunno.), skw not being union and its ill effects and how under appreciated we are as pilots. I'd be making captains pay. Not to trivialize these issues but I just feel like I'm on a merry 'go round |
Originally Posted by duvie
(Post 531049)
Buddy, I know its frustrating, but you knew the risk going into upgrade in an airplane you hadn't flown before. I'm not saying I agree with the policy, but you can't blame somebody else when you knew the rules going in.
Good luck in the Bro. |
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
(Post 531578)
Well lets do an experiment then, if it's so easy to replace how about you quit your crappy FO job and let us know about the miraculous job you stumble on to replace your income and QOL.
If you expect aviation to provide for you over your lifetime in a consistent and reliable manner you need a DOT test right now :rolleyes: But anyway...my entire premise on this subject was that junior FO's could replace their income and be home every night rather than commuting to reserve. If it really is that hard to get a $20K job right now, then I would vote not to fulrough (if there was such a vote). |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531878)
If you expect aviation to provide for you over your lifetime in a consistent and reliable manner you need a DOT test right now :rolleyes:
|
If you can't pass certain tests, you shouldn't be able to do certain jobs, ie doctor, lawyer, pilot, etc. That way my point Tony.
|
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531878)
Actually I did that for most of 2008. Military reserves, and some other odd jobs I do. The reserves are great because your recall rights are guaranteed. Join up now, while there is opportunity and demand. You don't even have to fly, the pay is pretty good and gets better over time. I would recommend getting a commission if possible.
If you expect aviation to provide for you over your lifetime in a consistent and reliable manner you need a DOT test right now :rolleyes: But anyway...my entire premise on this subject was that junior FO's could replace their income and be home every night rather than commuting to reserve. If it really is that hard to get a $20K job right now, then I would vote not to fulrough (if there was such a vote). |
In the Brasilia, then you take that amount, minus taxes you are still hovering around 21 or 22 a year.. oh and did i forget to add the cost of benefits (Delta non rev), medical, vision, dental,or if you want to invest in the 401k. It all just brings that yearly income down even more.
If I could join the ANG, I would, but being 31 in Jan, and that my uncorrected vision (wear contacts that bring it better than 20/20), I have been told I cant because of age and vision. Plus, (mostly out of curiosity) could you even get the time off from an airline to start training in the ANG for the what 2 years? |
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
(Post 532319)
Our junior F/O's are all on second year pay by now.. they're making more than 20K.
|
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 530633)
I shouldn't be expected to subsidize other peoples paychecks, this isn't the soviet union. Its sucks some people might lose their jobs in this economy but thats the way life works. I have bills to pay too and the policy manual says that lineholders can expect 87 hours per month.
When NWA starts hiring again, you will be a perfect fit! "Got mine, pull up the ladder" or "Geez when I was a youngster, I had to fly freight upside down in my Aztec with one engine failed and the other engine leaking oil, so you should have to also" or "Insert lame excuse for my greed here______" I hope most on this thread are young up and coming pilots that have the progressive attitude that helping each other out makes the world a better place. We've seen where self-centered greed have gotten us in the financial, automotive, etc. industry. Good luck to all. |
Originally Posted by BHopper88
(Post 532324)
If I could join the ANG, I would, but being 31 in Jan, and that my uncorrected vision (wear contacts that bring it better than 20/20), I have been told I cant because of age and vision. Plus, (mostly out of curiosity) could you even get the time off from an airline to start training in the ANG for the what 2 years? It's about the only way you're going to get a retirement in aviation... |
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 530075)
SKW will not furlough until they see their Summer FLT Schedule. At that time one of three things should happen:
A. Furlough up to 200 pilots B. We will maintain our current levels until the end of summer when based upon our attrition, part time pilot lines and VLOA's they will reevaluate whether to furlough or not and how many to furlough. C. We could see an increase in projected flying mainly on the UAL side. If this happens I wouldn’t expect SKW to start new hire classes because we are way overstaffed (to the tune of 200-300 pilots). It would take a pickup of over 30 a/c for SKW to start “dry docking” our poolies. My thoughts/opinion………no furloughs with a small increase in flying, increased VLOA’s out past 6 months with routine currency training/FLT’s and 100++ PT pilot lines (will go extremely senior)…………………but I’m not Jerry. I’m also in no risk of being furloughed and a downgrade would actually be great. I now have my ATP, I’m almost at 1000 121 PIC and I’d love to stop commuting ATL-FAT. |
Originally Posted by flyboyzz1
(Post 532901)
Sure hope you are right man! The news at ASA kind of points in a different direction.
They were as truthful as they could be. They said that by law they can’t tell us what’s going on behind the scenes but things aren’t looking so go as of right now. |
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 532938)
Yep, we'll see. A few BW's told us in Left Seat Class that SKW can't maintain its current staffing levels much longer. They are waiting for the FEB FLT schedule releases and if they aren't what SKW is hoping for then we will have to "F."
They were as truthful as they could be. They said that by law they can’t tell us what’s going on behind the scenes but things aren’t looking so go as of right now. yeah this is what my friend told me a month ago. he said that he has been told by "people" that the furloughes will begin in march. i am pretty sure skywest has their schedules already (we do at pinnacle). thankfully my friends are above the drop off (they think), but its never good when the movement is backwards. |
JJ- How many pilots were they talking about?
|
Originally Posted by flyboyzz1
(Post 533091)
JJ- How many pilots were they talking about?
Best of luck to everyone. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:18 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands