Pinnacle Airlines Corp. Announces Expansion of Partnership With Continental Airlines
01-15-2009, 11:14 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Student Pilot
Posts: 849
[QUOTE=cloudkicker1981;538166]
I do support a merging of our lists (wouldn't have volunteered on the OC if I didn't agree with this), but not if the attitude of the Pinnacle pilot group is in line with what's being said by some of the Pinnacle guys on here.
It hasn't even been a month since we voted in ALPA, and these guys are already talking DOH?! In retrospect I guess I shouldn't have expected them to want anything else (besides a staple if they could do it), but it's still surprising and telling.
Many Colgan pilots didn't want to vote because they were fearful of being screwed by Pinnacle pilots if we merged. I tried my best trying to convince some of those coworkers that Pinnacle guys were willing to work with us. To think I defended that, I kinda feel like an idiot now.
Whatever happened to "fair and equitable" and "working together" as touted repeatedly by the Pinnacle MEC during our campaign? How about the Colgan pilots who finally changed their minds because some Pinnacle guys worked tirelessly (Scott Erickson for example) to reassure them that Pinnacle wasn't out to get us? Am I wrong to expect some integrity on the part of fellow pilots and think that they would honor their promises?
I remember reading ALPA literature (had to do my homework before I started trying to convince anyone why we should vote) which specifically stated that alpa DOESN'T support DOH. The reasons should be obvious to anyone.
I understand everyone has to watch out for themselves, but let's be intelligent here. What's more fair for EVERYONE involved - Pinnacle guys getting their windfall and Colgan guys getting screwed, or doing something like what DAL/NWA did which only affected EVERYONE A LITTLE. A merger is never going to be perfect, and right now I can't think of anything more fair (for everyone involved again, not just one group) than relative seniority. I could see how Pinnacle guys would be opposed to relative seniority because it does benefit the Colgan group a little more, but it still has way less drastic effects on both groups than DOH. I wonder if any of the Pinnacle guys wanting DOH with us ever thought that it was unreasonable that US Air guys would only consider DOH during their merger.
I certainly hope my hard work wasn't for nothing.
Originally Posted by Airsupport
I dont think DOH would be fair in terms of colgan guys havent been around as long and a percentage merger wouldnt really change much for anyone. Dumping use in with you guys is like mixing in a teaspoon of surger in a cup of flour...not much of an impact.
My understanding of a percentage would go something like this. If im at colgan holding 20percent than after the merger I would still be in the top 20percent of the entire list.
There would be around 1800-1900 pilots total and if your holding CA at either airline nothing would change. Especially with some sort of fence in place for a couple of years.
My understanding of a percentage would go something like this. If im at colgan holding 20percent than after the merger I would still be in the top 20percent of the entire list.
There would be around 1800-1900 pilots total and if your holding CA at either airline nothing would change. Especially with some sort of fence in place for a couple of years.
It hasn't even been a month since we voted in ALPA, and these guys are already talking DOH?! In retrospect I guess I shouldn't have expected them to want anything else (besides a staple if they could do it), but it's still surprising and telling.
Many Colgan pilots didn't want to vote because they were fearful of being screwed by Pinnacle pilots if we merged. I tried my best trying to convince some of those coworkers that Pinnacle guys were willing to work with us. To think I defended that, I kinda feel like an idiot now.
Whatever happened to "fair and equitable" and "working together" as touted repeatedly by the Pinnacle MEC during our campaign? How about the Colgan pilots who finally changed their minds because some Pinnacle guys worked tirelessly (Scott Erickson for example) to reassure them that Pinnacle wasn't out to get us? Am I wrong to expect some integrity on the part of fellow pilots and think that they would honor their promises?
I remember reading ALPA literature (had to do my homework before I started trying to convince anyone why we should vote) which specifically stated that alpa DOESN'T support DOH. The reasons should be obvious to anyone.
I understand everyone has to watch out for themselves, but let's be intelligent here. What's more fair for EVERYONE involved - Pinnacle guys getting their windfall and Colgan guys getting screwed, or doing something like what DAL/NWA did which only affected EVERYONE A LITTLE. A merger is never going to be perfect, and right now I can't think of anything more fair (for everyone involved again, not just one group) than relative seniority. I could see how Pinnacle guys would be opposed to relative seniority because it does benefit the Colgan group a little more, but it still has way less drastic effects on both groups than DOH. I wonder if any of the Pinnacle guys wanting DOH with us ever thought that it was unreasonable that US Air guys would only consider DOH during their merger.
I certainly hope my hard work wasn't for nothing.
01-16-2009, 03:42 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: TRYING TO STAY AWAKE
Posts: 70
[QUOTE=kalyx522;538986]
I do support a merging of our lists (wouldn't have volunteered on the OC if I didn't agree with this), but not if the attitude of the Pinnacle pilot group is in line with what's being said by some of the Pinnacle guys on here.
It hasn't even been a month since we voted in ALPA, and these guys are already talking DOH?! In retrospect I guess I shouldn't have expected them to want anything else (besides a staple if they could do it), but it's still surprising and telling.
Many Colgan pilots didn't want to vote because they were fearful of being screwed by Pinnacle pilots if we merged. I tried my best trying to convince some of those coworkers that Pinnacle guys were willing to work with us. To think I defended that, I kinda feel like an idiot now.
Whatever happened to "fair and equitable" and "working together" as touted repeatedly by the Pinnacle MEC during our campaign? How about the Colgan pilots who finally changed their minds because some Pinnacle guys worked tirelessly (Scott Erickson for example) to reassure them that Pinnacle wasn't out to get us? Am I wrong to expect some integrity on the part of fellow pilots and think that they would honor their promises?
I remember reading ALPA literature (had to do my homework before I started trying to convince anyone why we should vote) which specifically stated that alpa DOESN'T support DOH. The reasons should be obvious to anyone.
I understand everyone has to watch out for themselves, but let's be intelligent here. What's more fair for EVERYONE involved - Pinnacle guys getting their windfall and Colgan guys getting screwed, or doing something like what DAL/NWA did which only affected EVERYONE A LITTLE. A merger is never going to be perfect, and right now I can't think of anything more fair (for everyone involved again, not just one group) than relative seniority. I could see how Pinnacle guys would be opposed to relative seniority because it does benefit the Colgan group a little more, but it still has way less drastic effects on both groups than DOH. I wonder if any of the Pinnacle guys wanting DOH with us ever thought that it was unreasonable that US Air guys would only consider DOH during their merger.
I certainly hope my hard work wasn't for nothing.
Nicely said and I would really like to see guys like you on our MEC. I am one of those guys who was totally against ALPA last year and also voted for it this year. Which shows by the voting was the case with alot of us. I truely give huge props (lol) to you guys on the OC, Colgan and Pinnicale guys both.
A percentage should be the only fair way to go. Pinnicale guys out number Colgan 3 to 1 so even if we did jump it wouldn't effect Pinnicale guys a whole lot.
I believe though that in the end it will be a fair merger to the best that it can be. Both groups really need to look at it as becoming one and not hating eachother. The only winner in that senario will be management who is exactly why we wanted to merge in the first place, not because of a few seniority numbers.
I jumpseat alot through DTW on PNCL. BSing with the crews gives me the impression that the pilot groups r alot alike. We both have balls and will have no problem voting for a strike if need be or backing eachother up. Lets work together to show what two hardball pilot groups can accomplish!
BH
Originally Posted by cloudkicker1981
I do support a merging of our lists (wouldn't have volunteered on the OC if I didn't agree with this), but not if the attitude of the Pinnacle pilot group is in line with what's being said by some of the Pinnacle guys on here.
It hasn't even been a month since we voted in ALPA, and these guys are already talking DOH?! In retrospect I guess I shouldn't have expected them to want anything else (besides a staple if they could do it), but it's still surprising and telling.
Many Colgan pilots didn't want to vote because they were fearful of being screwed by Pinnacle pilots if we merged. I tried my best trying to convince some of those coworkers that Pinnacle guys were willing to work with us. To think I defended that, I kinda feel like an idiot now.
Whatever happened to "fair and equitable" and "working together" as touted repeatedly by the Pinnacle MEC during our campaign? How about the Colgan pilots who finally changed their minds because some Pinnacle guys worked tirelessly (Scott Erickson for example) to reassure them that Pinnacle wasn't out to get us? Am I wrong to expect some integrity on the part of fellow pilots and think that they would honor their promises?
I remember reading ALPA literature (had to do my homework before I started trying to convince anyone why we should vote) which specifically stated that alpa DOESN'T support DOH. The reasons should be obvious to anyone.
I understand everyone has to watch out for themselves, but let's be intelligent here. What's more fair for EVERYONE involved - Pinnacle guys getting their windfall and Colgan guys getting screwed, or doing something like what DAL/NWA did which only affected EVERYONE A LITTLE. A merger is never going to be perfect, and right now I can't think of anything more fair (for everyone involved again, not just one group) than relative seniority. I could see how Pinnacle guys would be opposed to relative seniority because it does benefit the Colgan group a little more, but it still has way less drastic effects on both groups than DOH. I wonder if any of the Pinnacle guys wanting DOH with us ever thought that it was unreasonable that US Air guys would only consider DOH during their merger.
I certainly hope my hard work wasn't for nothing.
A percentage should be the only fair way to go. Pinnicale guys out number Colgan 3 to 1 so even if we did jump it wouldn't effect Pinnicale guys a whole lot.
I believe though that in the end it will be a fair merger to the best that it can be. Both groups really need to look at it as becoming one and not hating eachother. The only winner in that senario will be management who is exactly why we wanted to merge in the first place, not because of a few seniority numbers.
I jumpseat alot through DTW on PNCL. BSing with the crews gives me the impression that the pilot groups r alot alike. We both have balls and will have no problem voting for a strike if need be or backing eachother up. Lets work together to show what two hardball pilot groups can accomplish!
BH
01-16-2009, 04:00 AM
#35
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
Lets keep this one on topic. Saab and Slaphappy, you two were on the edge with your posts (#s 21,22) Lets police ourselves and keep this one going.
One way to look at it is that if the industry is still in the dumps next year and we are able to acheive a contract or be in serious talks for a contract we will be in a position to help take ~160 pilots off the streets with hopefully the pay and work rules to make it worth it. We now have options for a total of 60 with the 15 for CAL and their new 15 options in addition to the 15 options we already had.
One way to look at it is that if the industry is still in the dumps next year and we are able to acheive a contract or be in serious talks for a contract we will be in a position to help take ~160 pilots off the streets with hopefully the pay and work rules to make it worth it. We now have options for a total of 60 with the 15 for CAL and their new 15 options in addition to the 15 options we already had.
01-16-2009, 04:58 AM
#36
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,518
The talk among the 9E ALPA folks is *if* there is an integration it will be much like NW/DL with percentage based integration with fences. Nothing is official and most are NOT calling for the DOH BS. You have to keep in mind this is a public forum where MANY love to stir the pot and talk without a filter since its not face to face when the other people know who is talking. Of course there is some bitterness about these Q's right now at 9E. This has absolutely NOTHING against the pilots, just against mgmt who is pulling down CA's and trying to bust our balls with negotiations- meanwhile the other side of the fence is getting new planes and growth with the money from our side. The fact that Colgan (9L) and Pinnacle (9E) are now ALPA both sides get to work TOGETHER with this growth to secure better QOL. There is scope arbitration that deals DIRECTLY with these Q400's and that is at the heart of many folks' displeasure. Of course you will have the folks that play nice in the crowd but once the lights go out will slash the throats of those next to them to get ahead. This industry is cut-throat and unfortunately many will only care about themselves instead of the overall picture. That is not the overall mantra of the 9E folks, although there are always a few in the group that don't agree with the majority.
Once again this has NOTHING to do with Colgan guys/gals (emotionally), yet the folks at 9E do want us all under one banner with a fair contract and growth for PNCL corp where both sides are equally benefited. The Q400 is a nice looking plane, but I have yet to hear a 9E person saying he/she wants to fly it in leu of the jet- especially when the bases don't coincide. Hope that clears the air...
Once again this has NOTHING to do with Colgan guys/gals (emotionally), yet the folks at 9E do want us all under one banner with a fair contract and growth for PNCL corp where both sides are equally benefited. The Q400 is a nice looking plane, but I have yet to hear a 9E person saying he/she wants to fly it in leu of the jet- especially when the bases don't coincide. Hope that clears the air...
01-16-2009, 05:38 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
Originally Posted by kalyx522
I do support a merging of our lists (wouldn't have volunteered on the OC if I didn't agree with this), but not if the attitude of the Pinnacle pilot group is in line with what's being said by some of the Pinnacle guys on here.
It hasn't even been a month since we voted in ALPA, and these guys are already talking DOH?! In retrospect I guess I shouldn't have expected them to want anything else (besides a staple if they could do it), but it's still surprising and telling.
Many Colgan pilots didn't want to vote because they were fearful of being screwed by Pinnacle pilots if we merged. I tried my best trying to convince some of those coworkers that Pinnacle guys were willing to work with us. To think I defended that, I kinda feel like an idiot now.
Whatever happened to "fair and equitable" and "working together" as touted repeatedly by the Pinnacle MEC during our campaign? How about the Colgan pilots who finally changed their minds because some Pinnacle guys worked tirelessly (Scott Erickson for example) to reassure them that Pinnacle wasn't out to get us? Am I wrong to expect some integrity on the part of fellow pilots and think that they would honor their promises?
I remember reading ALPA literature (had to do my homework before I started trying to convince anyone why we should vote) which specifically stated that alpa DOESN'T support DOH. The reasons should be obvious to anyone.
I understand everyone has to watch out for themselves, but let's be intelligent here. What's more fair for EVERYONE involved - Pinnacle guys getting their windfall and Colgan guys getting screwed, or doing something like what DAL/NWA did which only affected EVERYONE A LITTLE. A merger is never going to be perfect, and right now I can't think of anything more fair (for everyone involved again, not just one group) than relative seniority. I could see how Pinnacle guys would be opposed to relative seniority because it does benefit the Colgan group a little more, but it still has way less drastic effects on both groups than DOH. I wonder if any of the Pinnacle guys wanting DOH with us ever thought that it was unreasonable that US Air guys would only consider DOH during their merger.
I certainly hope my hard work wasn't for nothing.
uhhmmm what you quoted is not what i said. i don't know how you did it but that isn't my post that you are getting so offended by. it was written by your coworker cloudkicker on page 1
01-16-2009, 05:52 AM
#38
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
Lets all relax on the merger idea. Once and If PNCL Corp announces a pilot list meger then we can let our pilots will cooler heads sit in a room and work on it. Hotheads on a forum board do nothing to benefit 9E and 9L unity.
01-16-2009, 09:55 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Student Pilot
Posts: 849
Originally Posted by cloudkicker1981
We both have balls and will have no problem voting for a strike if need be or backing eachother up. Lets work together to show what two hardball pilot groups can accomplish!
BH
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