ASA or XJT
 

Any thoughts on the best of the two for a first "real job?" I have things in the works with both... but with one losing airplanes and the other under a cloud of contract problems and Delta's uncertainty, neither is looking too swell. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Here is one of my own: I should have taken all that money and went to Med School. Oh well... too late.

Thanks guys.

I don't know anything about ASA, so I have nothing to compare to. I just got hired by XJT. The people there are great. Friendly, confident about the 69 planes and it is a first-class operation. I say go for XJT, at the very least you'll be below me on the seniority list when the furloughs hit :D

Gee.... thanks, pal.

:)

Tough one, but I'd say ASA. Delta is looking up a little and if you ever wanted to put your faith in airline management, put it in Skywest (they own ASA).

XJT is a good company, but they may or may not downsize...you could take a chance and if you get furloughed with a few 100 hours of RJ time, someone else will hire you.

Take into account where you want to live, and where you would likely be based...the difference between the very best and very worst regionals is irrelevant if you throw in a 2-3 leg, 2000 mile commute.

XJT is probably your best bet. I think XJT will secure that 69 aircraft flying somewhere and XJT is a great place to work. good luck!

Tough one. Just like I figured, there seem to be different views on almost every aspect of it.

I guess I will go with the safe bet, and do whatever my wife tells me to do. As if I had a choice... :cool:

I would not go to an airline that just lost the flying for a quarter of their fleet. XJT is a great company (from what I've heard), but that won't make a difference if you're furloughed as soon as you get out of training.

Seniority is everything. I'd recommend going somewhere that won't likely require you to start over in six months.

Having said that, the whole industry is a crap shoot.

IMHO, I would agree that XJT would be a crapshoot. Being and ASA employee, I'm by no means saying what we have is better, but the uncertainty of a 69 a/c drop would concern me. XJT is a great place to work, but you have to go where you get your PIC time & move on.

ASA is my 3rd airline and the grass is rarely greener on the other side. We have many faults and many positives. We are also in the tail end (I hope) of an exhausting 4 year fight on our contract.

I really don't care how much crap I get from others here, but if I were you, I would consider a carrier that is growing rapidly for the quickest upgrade that I can get. Our most junior Captain was hired in 2001 (that's a 5 year upgrade). Mesa and Chautauqua both have a quicker upgrade (because they are growing). Heck, for that matter, Mesa is hiring Capt's off the street for the Dash-8 for Delta Connection out of the Northeast.

Fact of the matter is that YOU have to get the PIC Turbine time if you want to go to a Major. Regardless of all the bitching and griping about the "*****s" of the industry, they are the ones moving up quicker, getting the PIC time and moving on to bigger and better things.

Don't let anyone try to convince you that the Mesa's, Chautauquas & Gulfstreams will hurt your chances of getting on with the majors. That's a bunch of bull**it. I know plenty of them now that are laughing all the way to the bank at CAL, SWA, etc.

Do what YOU have to do to get the PIC time in the quickest way possible and move on.

VERY well said greatview!!!

I agree with you 100%. The regionals are not somewhere I want to be for any amount of time longer than necessary. However, Im still a low time guy with under 1k TT. I have already interviewed at ASA and have an interview next week at XJT. So, I guess you can consider me taking whatever I can get at this point.... and I consider myself lucky to even have interviews.

However, neither is in the bag. Its been past my two week waiting period at ASA... and still no "Welcome Aboard" or "Thanks but no thanks" letter. So, I am ultimately still in the take whatever comes your way boat... but it never hurts to look ahead, IF I get lucky enough to have a choice to make.

If you don't meet the min requirements for the airline that you want (or the one that will get you quick PIC time), then I guess you have 2 choices.

1. Continue doing what you are doing (cfi, 135, flying rubber dog-sh!t out of hong kong, whatever) as long as it's a secure job and pay is decent relatively speaking, until you meet the mins.

2. Take a regional job if you get an offer, even if it means being furloughed in the near future, or if it's with an outfit like AE with a 7 year upgrade. Do this with the knowledge that the worst case is you'll be jobless. If you can handle that idea, then go for it. The up side is that you'll be jobless with a few hundred hours of jet time in your book, even if it is SIC. Just watch for training agreements, etc, that make you pay back the cost of training if you leave before some prescribed period of time. You don't want to get the offer from your ideal company only to be tied down by $20k in debt to your current employer.

Having been a close watcher of the airline industry as a whole and the regionals in particular for many years, my advice would be NOT TO FALL IN LOVE WITH ANY AIRLINE BECAUSE THEY WILL ALL BREAK YOUR HEART. What is true this year won't be true next year. In 2 years Mesa could be at the top of the payscale in the regional world and Horizon and Skywest could be at the bottom (both Horizon and Mesa have pilot contracts up for renewal soon). It wasn't so long ago that Mesaba was THE regional airline to be at. They were getting the Avros, expanding the Saab fleet and life was great. Now where are they? The only regionals that have consistantly been well managed and reasonably good to work for are Horizon and SkyWest but that could all disappear like a fart in the wind. And its all relative.

Bottom line: Regional airlines are all pretty much the same. Every one of them has its own set of pros and cons. And those pros and cons are always changing. Today airline A is up and B is down, tommorow B is up and A is down. I know this post doesn't answer your question directly but its something to think about.

I got the "Welcome aboard" letter from ASA yesterday. Given that I already live in Atlanta, and have a fiance here in Med School... it seems like the logical choice. Even with upgrade time being a little long, it still seems alot safer than moving across the country somewhere for who knows what.

With all being said, I am still very excited about the opportunity and I thank all of you for your help!

Congratulations on getting accepted to ASA. I would just suggest taking the job, complete the required term of service for the training contract. Then re-evaluate your circumstances and the industry and make any changes that you see fit to get you on your desired career path. But one thing I cannot stress enough is the 1000 hrs of Turbine PIC. Every thing else is "colored bubbles".

little info plz ..
 

Jacksjj..... Any info about the interview and the sim ride ??

Thanks in advance

Congrats on getting on with ASA!!!!

Look forward to seeing you online........

jacksjj:

Congradulations. Best wishes & blue skies. :cool:

Btw, does anyone know what the average upgrade time is within the regional airline industry? Just wondering.:confused:

atp

The "good" regionals have higher times. Horizon runs upwards of 7 years. The ones that don't have the QOL and pay tend to go pretty quick, I'd imagine because of faster attrition. Mesa and TSA are somewhere around 2 years or less usually.

I would say that the majority that are currently hiring probably average a 3 to 4 year upgrade.

Takpilot - here you go.

All the gouges from willflyforfood and aviationinterviews are pretty right on. They know everyone reads them.... and they expect you to. However, the downside is... they expect you to know the stuff in the gouges pretty well.

Day 1: Sim ride. Meet at FSI at 1400. The guy was really nice and laid back, he does his best to make you feel comfortable. He goes over the RJ and power settings pretty thoroughly. He never looked at our logbooks one time. Asks basic questions about your background. he is a very laid back guy... very cool. He will get you in the sim, and brief you on all the knobs and levers. Pilot flying is right seat, pilot non flying is left seat. left seat handles all the bugs, flaps, and gear. The only flying you get to do is a level descent while the PF briefs the approach. i used the left seat time to talk A TON. Constantly saying altitudes and pretty much anything I can remember just to help the guy flying, he is busy enough without trying to remember what altitude he was told to maintain. The guy told me he liked my CRM... so I think it helped.

The profile is as follows: T/O, maintain 250kt climb to 5000, level off at 250, begin 250kt climb to 8000 and a right turn direct to a VOR, he gives holding instructions a while out, so you have time to set up and SLOW DOWN, (be sure to remember holding speeds - he will NOT remind you), enter the hold and go around once in the racetrack, then begin vectors for ILS into ABY. Like I said, upon starting to descend, you can hand it over and brief the approach to yourself while you load the bugs and frequencies, once you take it back... plenty of time to gather your thoughts and fly the ILS. he said it would be 600OVC and 2mi. It was more like 1000 OVC and 5. The landing is not graded.

Over all - the sim is not too bad, but by far, the most stressful part of the interview if you havent flown one. If you screw something up, he will stop the sim - ask you what youre doing, and let you do it again. (My partner had to fly the ILS twice) So - if you screw one up, dont sweat it. All they are looking for is basic instrument skills, asituational awareness, and the ability to fly a glass cocokpit SOMEWHAT. My biggest piece of advice is to get all the glass time you can get. The tape will throw you off if you have never seen it. When youre done - go home and call the number. If you hear the last 4 of your social, back for day 2. All four of us made it.

Day 2: Meet at 9 at the GO. They give you the urine test, have you watch a powerpoint, and take a written before your HR and tech portion. The written is not too bad - but study ANY information you have on EVERYTHING. You will never know what youll see on the written. There are 4 versions and EVERYTHING is covered.

Examples: What is p-factor? That does 121 cover? What is MOCA? What does it give you? How much frost on the wing is allowed for TO? Where does bleed air come from in a turbine engine? Define class B airspace. What does an aft CG give you? Where is the FAF on an ILS? What color is a taxiway direction sign? Nothing too hard - but the questions are all over the place. Study the AIM and you will do fine.

The tech and HR are pretty similar to all the other gouges. Why ASA? What can you bring to us? Ever scare yourself in an Airplane? What is CRM to you?? Your captain wants to take off 30 pounds overweight... what do you do??? Tell me about your current aircraft's electrical system... (he tried to get me here by asking me how it relates to other systems. I.e. - If no electrical, will the landing gear still work? Etc...) Know the Jepp enroutes. he said "we are taking off here - and going here. Tell me what every single one of these symbols means." If you dont know one.... tell him you dont know. Honesty is crucial with these people. They want to know if, when you screw up, you can admit it and save yourself.... or cover it and cause a problem. He will give you three Jepp charts (An ILS, a DP, and an airport diagram) and have you brief an approach. Then asks what adequate visual reference means under takeoff mins... then youre done.

The guy is very firm in his attitude. One of the things you are being evaluated on is your composure. Hold strong on your answers throughout. However, he is still a nice guy and tries to make you feel at home. I think he just wants to see if you know what youre doing and cant be pushed over.

Any more questions... email me at jjjackson_21 at yahoo dot com.

No training contract at ASA, but AMEN on the TPIC.

Jacksjj,

If you don't mind me asking, what is your TT/ME? (My assumption is that since you have PA44 in your profile...you are/were a CFI for ATPs?)

Thanks
Lax

Right now Horizon's is six.

Thanks ....
 

jacksjj ... I appreciate your post, really good info about the hiring process ... Good luck on the gig ...

Rgrds.

LM.

Thanks.

Nope, I didnt instruct at ATP. You would think so with my time I guess. However, I did my Commercial ME first, and built quite a bit of time that way... and the flight school where I work only has one other MEI, so we get TONS of multi time. When I applied, I had 601TT/185ME. However, I had a few hookups there. I interned there and had a few good friends on the inside.

ASA interview
 

jacksjj:

Your post on the interview process was very informative. Man, it felt like I was right there w/you. 'Preciate it.:)

All the best!!!

Now that I've been placed in the dreaded "pool" at ASA... does anyone have any idea when I might get a class? I have heard they are bringing in people according to their experience. Meaning, the group of 5000 hour ex-citation captians are going to get in a class before our group of 800 hour "lucky to even be hired" cfis. Any truth to this??

I've also heard they are still hiring 40 a month through July... so what does that mean to me??? Any help is appreciated.

XJT vs ASA
 

I've worked for both. ASA has older aircraft and big maintenance problems, which constantly makes them a Not On Time airline. Not dishing here, just the truth. I regularly expected flts to be late, which was due to maintenance issues and a/c swaps. The management at ASA needs to fix some things. Perhaps now though with Skywest, things will improve. Good airline, but needs improvement.

XJT has a good management team. They recently decided to keep all 69 a/c from Continental, so now it's up to Continental to come up with other a/c to fly those same routes. XJT has plans for those a/c already. They are hiring a lot, money in the bank, hiring out services to show other airlines how to manage gates and SOCC and a good balance sheet. Anything is possible in this industry, but for right now, they are starting to shine.

According to the ASA recruiters at Air Inc last week, there is a two year upgrade time at ASA.

I think that means that the GO is passing the crack pipe around again.

Pick the one thats closest to home. Commuting is no fun.

Two years? Yea right. More like 4-5?

..XJT also has profit sharing and monthly bonus for on time performance as long as they are making a profit.

This sucks. I was told "Oh... June 19th. Definitely." I got a call the other day saying "Class has been cancelled. There will be one in July... sometime." But... Im not holding my breath on that one either.

Too bad I didnt go to that Xj interview. I declined once I got the letter from ASA in the mail. I would probably be halfway through class by now. :mad:

jacksjj,

If you don't mind me asking, where did you go to school at?

I'm a native of the PTC area, that join the military to do weather, and in the mean time am a ATC-CTI student at Miami Dade. Unfortunately considering the stresses of the FAA and our contract talks, I may be ditching ATC and sucking the SJS straw pretty hard here soon. May end up heading back down to PTC and attending Falcon Flight Academy to finish my PPL, and then attend ATP at FTY for everything else. Was just wondering where you CFI'd at, etc?

Any rumors about work XJT is looking for or has found for the 69 A/C?

Sorry to hear that you turned down your XJT interview. I am interviewing there soon and am in the process of applying to ASA. Word from ASA HR (i have a direct contact) said that "hiring will be slow until the pilot contract is signed." If I were you, i would continue the search and not wait.

I played the waiting game with AirNet for an SIC slot that never came and its no fun. Just keep searching around and don't skip an interview until you are sitting in class.... You can always say no, but better to have options.

Yeah, I am starting to kick myself for not at least going to the XJet interview. I politely declined, so I wonder if they would give me another chance.

On the other hand, I just bought a house in ATL so I am planning on staying here for a while. So, I guess in the mean time I am going to continue to instruct here in ATL and try to find something more interesting to pass the time until Lisa or Dan calls for my class.

As to the person asking me about my background... I went to Auburn and graduated with an Aviation Management degree and just got my ratings at an FBO. I am currently instructing at LZU northeast of Atlanta. Falcon is a pretty good school, I know Dan... the guy who owns it. Its not bad. ATP is alright too I guess. I have my own opinion of them.. but that is another topic altogether.

Yeah, I remember Falcon before it was Falcon Aviation Academy, they were good to me when I was in high school, but just never could keep the fund flow in place to continue flying. Now, potentially, heading back to PTC, I may return there to finish my PPL, and then goto ATP for everything else. Who knows, I may stick it out with FAA and work for them as an instructor, but it'll depend on how much CFI pay is for them, ATP, and other flight schools. For example, CFI's here in Columbi SC are averaging $30-40 an hour. Anyone know pay rates at ATP?

Forget ASA or XJT. That above is the best decision you'll ever make.

I'd go XJT.

I call BS on Slaphappy. Don't buy what he's selling. Don't believe everything from the management or ALPO.