questions about the Dash 8 Q
 

I am trying to figure out a few things. I am frustrated that the media is basically saying pilot error when we don't even know if the deice system was working yet. I have a few questions that I am going to relay to a media source at CNN and FOX to get this story back on track and to stop the focus on if they did or did not have a/p on in ice.

Does the Q have some sort of audible alert to let the pilots know if the trim was being activated by the Autopilot? If so, is it something one would notice if it were often activated during that stage of the approach.

Second question: I understand you can get a deice disconnect or malfunction on low RPM which makes sense as there is a lack of air pressure from the engine. Has anyone heard of this or can anyone tell me more about it and how obvious it is to the pilots.

Third Question: If they pilots is there an SOP telling you to switch from 3 minute to 1 minute on the deice system at a certain stage of an approach or icing condition. Could the crew have left it in 3 which would contribute to the crash?

you need to listen to the NTSB press conferences for your info.

thanks but I have. There is no mention of the deice system working or not. In fact, that was even a question today and he didn't know. Plus they aren't saying anything about audible trim alert in the plane or anything about the deice failure problem. It could very well be that the deice system failed as the plane went into low rpm for the approach. THAT would clear the pilots! Regardless of autopilot the plane would be destined to crash if the deice system failed.

If there is any media person here. Please do not use the term "pilot error" loosely. You have to understand that there are many many stupid people out there and will take that term quite literally. Please confirm with an aviation specialist before making any claims. If the word "pilot error" has not come out of the NTSB, there is absolutely no reason why it should be claimed even if you are speculating. Thank you.

Holy crap! NO NO NO NO. I am not with the media at all. I am a pilot and have been for a long time that gets ****ED when the media misreports stuff. I just want to know about the plane. I PROMISE YOU that nothing in here will be quoted. I am just trying to understand. I am not a writer in any way as you can probably tell from the way I write here..lol I don't work for the media in anyway. I just happen to know two people that do. I can get in their ear to get this darn thing reported correctly. That's it! I am not an idiot and don't' appreciate the childish remark. I am on the same side you are. If they blame the pilots for having a/p on and the A/p does make a chirp or something when in motion then we all know the pilots would notice a significant amount of chirps and wouldn't let it get to where it was overloaded. I just don't know if that is an option with this plane. I have flown the 727, 737 and a few other turbo-props that DO have a sound made when AP is engaged and trim is activated. however, the 767 doesn't have this feature. So, does the Q? So, do you understand where I am going with this. If anyone can MAYBE get some of the media to at least focus on equipment failure as more of a possibility then that is better. Don't you think? Yea, we don't' want to admit it but it could very well be pilot error. However, IT MAY NOT BE! So, help me help this please and stop saying I am an idiot!

If the NTSB doesn't know if the de-icing system was working, what makes you think anybody on an online message board would know?

I for one question any new member on APC forums these past few days. I am hesitant to give detailed info on the accident to someone who asks so many questions.

Also, what was the decision making process on choosing a name "icywings" days after ice sent my friend and others to their death. To me it is tasteless, and this is coming from someone with the screen name "The Juice"

And it will be found out IN DUE TIME maybe after 2 years!!! This thing will be forgotten very quickly. If you want to help in the mean time, tell your media friends not to report anything that's not factual and to imply anything.

We'll probably have to wait for a more detailed accident analysis for the verdict on that.

I imagine that most aircraft black-boxes only monitor switch position and most likely valve position, but probably not actual pressure within the boots. So they will likely have to look closely at the wreckage and make a determination as to whether or not the boots were, in fact, working.

I could be wrong on that, as I'm not an expert on all the parameters that the black-box records on the aircraft.

If the pilots are going to be cleared - they will be cleared in time by the NTSB investigation running it's course. That, of course, could take up to a year or more for the final findings to come out. Until then we won't have much more information other than tidbits from the press and speculations. Accident investigation is a very intensive and scientific process.

I am not saying anyone here would know. However, someone with Q flight time in Ice on approach would know that how often the system kicks off from low rpm and low pressure! Right? I just want to know how it happens and how often it happens to see if that is a possible option here. Again, that would clear the pilots. The NTSB said the system was working but the pilots noticed a significant build-up. WHY? If the system was working they wouldn't have a big build up...right? Ok, I guess they could right before the boots blow but they don't say that on the CVR.

Oh, the comment calling me an idiot is gone. Thank you! I am honestly on the pilots side! I am a pilot have two brothers that are pilots and am in a unique situation where I can get RIGHT into the ear of people at CNN and FOX. I don't mean some associate producer either.

It's just the age of now, now, now and the hyped media. People need to make sense of something even if they can't so they'll just make up thing like they used the AP when they weren't supposed to and call it pilot error. End of story. If the NTSB doesn't know, no one does.

That is exactly what I am trying to do. However, I need facts and options to do that. THAT is why I have asked these questions. I can't believe I can't get the answer from anyone here. Amazing! Help me help this issue! Oh and I have used icywings as a call sign for years. I just happen to be logged in here for the first time. It has nothing to do with this accident. Maybe I should have used something different here signing up now but that is what I always use.

That may be true, but dont expect anyone to take you serious with that screen name. A lot of people on this board personally knew someone who died, kind of a class-less choice buddy

Look me up on any other forum like Flight Aware or Flight info. I just end up using icywings11 when icywings is taken. You will find me. In fact, my email address even starts with icywings as it has for YEARS. I know BAD timing but I just didn't think about it. You want proof tell me how to do it and I will. I AM NOT WITH THE DAMN MEDIA. They drive me crazy.

I helped clarify a story a while back when they said 2 planes missed by only 900 feet. Yea, they were 900 feet apart in altitude but like 2 miles apart meaning they were much further then the 900 feet. CNN cleared that up after I told the person I know about it. The story died right there. Look it up if you don't believe me.

WOW, you think so? :rolleyes:

Tell me about your flying experience and what airlines you worked for? Should be easy for a non-media guy like you.

The screen name makes me sick, GET IT! Have some class and stop posting

Again, I am SOOOOOOO sorry about the name. I HONEST TO GOD didn't think about it as it is just normal for me to ALWAYS use it. I mean NO DISRESPECT AT ALL to ANYONE. I am real sorry... I just didn't think about it. It is just automatic for me with anything related to Aviation to use icywings or icywings11

Icywings, I just reread your original post. There is nothing there that would contribute to making the media a little more responsible. Sounds like you are trying to find out the possible cause of crash. All the questions had to do with the pilots noticing something. All the questions were very basic in nature to which even someone with commercial flying experience can probably answer, doesn't have to be a Q driver, what are you implying?? Notice to the piots when the AP is trimming??? Notice to the pilot if there is not enough pressure for the boots???? You say you're a pilot?

Take a look here at my profile on flight info. IF you don't believe it PM me there and I will reply. It will show you I have been a member since like 2002
Flightinfo.com Hangar

I have hours ranging from my first flight in a 172 to 400 hours or so in the Metroliner with Ameriflight. Both the expiditer and metro out of DFW, PHX, and BFI. I am not saying I am some big time pilot or anything. However, I AM saying I am NOT with the media.

Yes I am trying to provide other LEGIT explanations for the crash that ARE NOT pilot error.

If the Deice did malfunction how would they know if there is no indicator. Even if it did at that altitude and airspeed they would have no options anyway. That presents doubt in it being pilot error.

I am trying to show how if the AP was on or not it would make little difference and for them to stop focusing on it as a problem. Common sense would prevent them from letting the Ap pass the 40 pounds of pressure using the trim. They would hear it chirping away. Or maybe the chirp was not working and they had no idea. Again, clearing them of anything or at least getting the media to start focusing on other options. Like the Deice pressure failure problem.

Funny, you forgot to mention your 727 and 737 time, just the 172 and metro time.

Good Bye Media Boy

Actually I didnt' mention it cause it was in a SIM at American long before 9-11 stopped allowing me to go in with my brother in the sim. If I hadn't how would I know they both make noise when the trim is activated. Ask me anything you want, or you can be like most pilots on these forums and just stick to the ignorant thought that I am with the media. Did you take the time to go to flightinfo like I said? See, you are worse then the media. You are assuming I am not who I say I am without looking it up like I told you to just like they are assuming it was pilot error. If you don't want to do the right thing then that is your problem. That proves it if you just go there and PM me. I can't get the PM if it ain't me and it shows you the start date of 2002.

For the record I only have like 5 hours in each in the sim.

Mod note:

Take a little time out, boys and girls. This thread is going nowhere and unproductive.

I didn't realize that pilots had been implicated.

Best bet is to follow the NTSB investigation, it's a slow process as you know, but one based on fact of finding.

For you to show up on the APC forum following a major accident, with the user name that you chose, and ask users to speculate on potential causal factors is not going to earn you any love.

I don't see this thread providing anything but speculation and flamebait - thread closed.