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- - ILS 23 in BUF (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/37144-ils-23-buf.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams (Post 562498)

Anybody thought the a good upset could have had the seat slide back with the pilot holding it?

Had that happen more than once in a Cessna.

True.

Can happen in any plane that sees a lot of use, and pilots who may not make sure the seat is locked down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudPupppy (Post 562467)

I'll contact the person who I got this from tomorrow, but I will say the ATIS in BUF mentions GS issues 5 degrees right of course on ILS 23

That's more what I'd expect, a little disemmination of information along normal channels- ATIS, NOTAMs, maybe an AIRMET-NovemberFoxtrot (as archaic as they may be, it's what we've got)

If BUF ILS 23 has a lethal defect I'd expect more than an internal memo circulating around one airline. And maybe lots of lawsuits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudPupppy (Post 562431)

Just had this sent to me.....

Safety Alert 2009-1
BUF ILS Hazard

SWAPA Pilots,

There is a potentially significant hazard concerning the ILS to runway 23 in BUF.

Information has been received indicating it is possible to obtain a significant nose pitch up, in some cases as much as 30 degrees, if the glide slope is allowed to capture before established on centerline. Pilots who are preparing to configure and land have the potential to experience abrupt pitch up, slow airspeed, and approach to stall if conditions present themselves in a certain manner.

This effect is the result of an earthen obstruction close enough to the ILS to affect the integrity of the glide slope signal. This has resulted in the issuance of an advisory given on ATIS which states that "the ILS Glide Slope for runway 23 is unusable beyond 5 degrees right of course."
When attempting to intercept the runway 23 ILS from right traffic, the ILS glide slope indication may read full deflection down. Just prior to intercept it may then move up in such as manner as to enable approach mode to capture in such a way as to result in a nose up pitch and loss of airspeed.

Southwest Airlines has issued a notice reading: "Until further notice, when executing the KBUF ILS/LOC Runway 23, DO NOT select Approach Mode until established on the localizer inbound."
This issue is being addressed on several levels in an attempt to address procedures, facilities, and communication regarding this matter. If you experience any issues related to this, please file an ASAP form and or call SWAPA Safety at SWAPA toll free.

Thanks for posting this. This does make sense and maybe that is why they have the note in the atis about the glideslope. After all i will be flying into buf tonight probably on this approach in the snow.

I dont see this being a problem. I fly in and out of buffalo daily with no problems. MONITOR THE AIRPLANE PEOPLE. Dont get complacent with the autopilot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams (Post 562494)

And the Colgan crew came in from the left for RWY-23.

I have to believe that the NTSB is evaluating every possible scenario, and if this really is on ATIS, im sure they are looking into it also. this is just the thought that hit me when I read this, I realize this is all probably coincidence, but wow the timing makes you go HMMMM

The dash 8 will not even capture the glideslope unless the loc is already captured anyway.

Even then it would not pitch up 30 degrees to capture either. If I recall correctly it doesnt even capture until it is within a 1 1/2 dot scale or so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmc-sgt (Post 562629)

Cool thanks for clearing that up, I kinda wondered but that makes sense

Now it looks like they tried to recover from a stall by raising the nose! WOW!

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalopilot (Post 562647)

Now it looks like they tried to recover from a stall by raising the nose! WOW!

yeah its not looking good, but just remember, I am sure he KNEW the right thing to do, but fatigue, surprise, stress..........it does strange things to the human body/mind

How about cut back on maximum duty time?