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Originally Posted by DeltaPaySoon
(Post 563246)
I just did this approach and can state, without hesitation, that there is a major issue with the glide slope.
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue) As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump. If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS. Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense. We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!! |
Originally Posted by The Juice
(Post 562932)
CNN just had "breaking news" about the ILS in BUF. I think this was the first time I have heard a report on 3407 where they did not blame Marvin and his actions.
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Originally Posted by DeltaPaySoon
(Post 563246)
I just did this approach and can state, without hesitation, that there is a major issue with the glide slope.
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue) As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump. If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS. Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense. We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!! |
This ILS approach into BUF is not unsafe or unlike any other approach in the world. In fact many ILS approaches I've come across have similar notes associated with them. Whether or not there is a note warning of possible interference outside of a specific range, it all comes down to the one and only constant that is prevelent in every aspect of flying......Fly the plane. If the magic autopilot starts pitching up dramatically, the PF should disengage it immediately, not wait and try to figure out "What's this stupid thing doing now." Too many times in my experience, I have seen fellow crew members with their hands in their laps and in a total relaxed state just depending on the autopilot to do its magic. Maybe this tragic accident will remind us all to never get that relaxed and confident in the autopilot, and be ready with our hands on the controls ready to disconnect at a moments notice our trusty autopilot.... and one more thing don't leave the autopilot on in icing.
I'm not implying that either one of these issues is the cause of the BUF tradgedy, but it is a good time to remember to get back to the basics......fly the airplane. |
I wish the airline section of the forums were only for Airline Pilots. The hiring and additional forums could be open. You bet, the news media is lurking here. They've even quoted members here in their broadcasts and reports.
-Fatty |
Originally Posted by Learyear
(Post 563670)
This ILS approach into BUF is not unsafe or unlike any other approach in the world. In fact many ILS approaches I've come across have similar notes associated with them. Whether or not there is a note warning of possible interference outside of a specific range, it all comes down to the one and only constant that is prevelent in every aspect of flying......Fly the plane. If the magic autopilot starts pitching up dramatically, the PF should disengage it immediately, not wait and try to figure out "What's this stupid thing doing now." Too many times in my experience, I have seen fellow crew members with their hands in their laps and in a total relaxed state just depending on the autopilot to do its magic. Maybe this tragic accident will remind us all to never get that relaxed and confident in the autopilot, and be ready with our hands on the controls ready to disconnect at a moments notice our trusty autopilot.... and one more thing don't leave the autopilot on in icing.
I'm not implying that either one of these issues is the cause of the BUF tradgedy, but it is a good time to remember to get back to the basics......fly the airplane. Minor issues from time to time, yeah we've all seen those, this is not a minor or safe issue. |
I'm not calling anyone out here, but, did any of you guys who experienced these problems ever report it officially?
Nothing will get fixed if we don't complain about it. |
Originally Posted by flynavyj
(Post 562834)
I've seen phantom localizers as well, and watched the autopilot capture and try to follow it, there are a couple airports that it's happened at, but i cant remember which ones. Also had a situation in MKE with a localizer bouncing moving from side to side, half scale deflection and immediately back the other way.
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