Hindsight 20/20
 

There is a lot of talk about Compass being stapled to the bottom of the delta list bringing all of those pilots right up to mainline jobs. I don't know if it will happen or not but I am curious if there is anyone else out there right now who was offered a job or an interview at compass but turned it down becuase it seemed to be a big risk. Won't we all be kicking ourselves if this does happen. Sure we would be on the bottom of a huge list, but it would be a mainline list. Its just one of those things you can't predict but you can't look back on if it didnt go the way you thought it would. Compass guys I wish you the best whatever happens.

I wish I would have know about them initially hiring captains right off the bat, those guys are now in a great position!...

I can't say I wouldn't be a bit jealous if they merged lists, but perhaps something like that could be used as an impetus for other regionals to do the same.

I heard this rumor. What I was wondering is, what makes Compass different than the other DAL wholly owned companies? Why are they different from Comair and Mesaba? I know some will say that their whole fleet is 76 seat Emb-175's, but both Comair and Mesaba have 76 seat a/c and Comair also has 70 seat a/c. Delta chooses who gets what aircraft, and Comair's pilot agreement actually has a pay rate for the EMB-170/175. Just because they are a start up airline, why should they get preferential treatment above the others?

because there are a lot of senior guys at COMAIR that would probably not be as joyous to be stapled onto the bottom of DAL, whereas Compass is much much smaller with a very junior pilot group

So, you're saying that DAL would do this, because they don't want to make the Comair and Mesaba pilots angry or disappoint them? Say it isn't so! Since when do they care about the pilots?

It would just be too much of a headache. Look DAL MANAGEMENT will do what is best for them, I don't think it makes much sense to do this from a management stand point. I think it would be a shame in one respect, we had a lot of qualified CA's here at XJT get a class date with NWA, only to have it canceled by DAL and now its like they never applied.............Now they will just accept CZ guys as their own after passing a regional interview board?

I believe DAL HR would like to have more control over who they hire, so I doubt they feel a lot of Compass guys would fit their mold of what they would like to see in a DAL uniform.....

I think all regional flying should be done by a mainline group, but its too good a deal for airline management to keep the regional world in a constant underbidding of each other for flying

Nope........

also, not everyone wants to fly for DAL/NWA

For one, the hiring minimums at Compass were a lot more tough than Mesaba and Comair had. A lot tougher than most of the regionals out there.

i think the main reason they want to bring compass into dal is so they can get even more regional jets flying around. the regional fleet is based on the amount of planes they have. bring in more and they can add more rjs. so now we will be forever stuck doing the delta shuffle.

Very good point ;)

I was in class with 9E when Compass called me for an interview. I would have had to leave class to interview. I figured that it was not worth the hassle to leave a job i already had. Looking back on it, maby I should have left. I would have been a line holding CA by now instead of a rsv CA getting booted back to f/o. Either way, I have absolutly NO desire to ever fly for a mainline pax carrier. If they get stapled, great for them. If not, they knew what they were getting into.

You guys are missing the important thing here. This isn't a management idea. Management wants to keep them separate. This is a DALPA thing. DALPA , or more correctly, certain segments of the pilot group, want this. It is viewed as a first step in recapturing the outsourced flying and strenghening scope.

But why them and not Comair or Mesaba you ask? Well, for starters, we are talking about a very small, junior pilot group, that is incidentally already represented by DALPA, which will more readily accept a staple. And quite frankly, there is no bad blood. Sorry if that offends, but some memories run deep, even if the reasons why aren't completely true or you weren't part of it.

Again, this is viewed as a first step in recapturing the flying. Where it goes from there, or even if it happens, who knows.

To add to this, it wouldnt make sense to petition to get Compass, Mesaba, and Comair stapled or added to the mainline list all at once.. We dont know if this will even work with Compass, but its a start.

I don't think anybody at mainline Delta wants that so they can add more RJ's, the point is to bring that large of an RJ to the mainline property so any further additions are with mainline pilots. This is not a Delta corporate thing, this is a pilot movement started by members of DALPA. As for Comair, the addition of the 50 seat jet is not of interest to most of the mainline guys, most of us are concerned with the outsourcing of DC9 flying with large RJ's.

Someboday had mentioned something about only making it through the regional interview and that Delta wants more control over who they hire, well the compass interview was the same interview as northwest's.

It was conducted by senior nwa pilots and a compass hr rep. My buddy, who works for nwa, and I compared the interview process and they were identical, for whatever thats worth.

Oh well, my luck compass will be sold off just like mid atlantic was and I will be furloughed again.:(

You're right, why do the same job for more money and better benefits? Makes sense to me. :confused: To each their own, but I'm having trouble deciphering this statement. Assuming you don't have 20 years invested at your respective regional and you aren't 55 years old, why would one feel this way? I've done the regional thing for quite some time in the past and let me be the first to admit it is a whole different ball game. I would guess that you LOVE being captain if you know what I mean. Once some get a taste of it, they have a hard time putting a monetary value on it because otherwise they seem to be ignoring basic math and numbers don't lie. That or they have a few skeletons in the closet. Those that can, do.

I've had the same thoughts as well. I'm 47 and just started my training. Sure, I'd love to eventually fly for Delta, FedEx, Netjets or UPSCO, but given all the "assumed" barriers to even be in a position to meet/exceed their minimums and the fact that so many other pilots are considered to be ahead of me in terms of experience; not to mention the turndown in hiring; and with possiblity of only having 15 years on the flightdeck being at regional doesn't look so bad.

For some EcK4life, the regionals may be the best option...schedule, QOL, choice of a/c, etc.



atp

Not everyone wants to fly pax. I guess I should have made no PAX big and bold. I have never wanted to fly for a legacy. I would much rather fly boxes than people. Purple or Brown is where I want to be. Like i said, not everyone wants to fly for a mainline pax carrier. :cool:

You bring up a very good point airsupport and I should change the original post of my topic to "those of us that wanted to work for Delta in the long run" I feel I still have an excellent chance at working there even if Compass is stapled, I was just interested to see others opinions.

I am one of those who turned down an interview with CZ back in 2007 . I have no regrets. For those sensitive people at CZ what I am about to say does not mean XJ pilots including myself have anything against CZ pilots. In fact I have a very good friend flying for CZ.

Having said that, like someone pointed out earlier, you are all thinking things posted on this forum as if they are legitimate business plans coming from DAL top management. No they are not. Junior NWA/DAL pilots and CZ pilots want this stapling to happen, not the DALPA nor the DAL management. Who has the final decision making power in a situation such as this? From previous history, DAL top management has the sole authority and we have never seen DAL top management do ANYTHING just because some pilots on an internet forum wants to do it.

Two scenarios I can think of is one, if DAL wants to staple CZ pilots what would be the benefit to DAL management? One benefit I can think of is that having ran all the possible numbers over various scenarios, DAL may agree to this in return for a heavy price from the NWA/DAL pilot group.
One such demand will be in return, DAL management will have the right to add more CRJ900s to Mesaba and other DCI carriers as they see fit. Second might be a creation of B rates, a second tier of lower payrates and different work rules because I just do not see in anyway DAL beancounters agreeing to this unless these consessions are made. Also, the writings are on the wall that if the load factor does not come up this summer, DAL will most likely have to furlough junior pilots in the hundreds if not thousands for many years unless the economy comes back up, and all the economists are saying 2009 will be worse than 2008 and it will be at least 4 to 7 years for a full recovery. This means there is a potential for DAL junior pilots and every stapled CZ pilots to be furloughed for at least 7 years or longer with ever changing airline industry picture in the domestic market. There may not be any jobs to return because DAL may decide to just reduce the number of jobs period. Just look at ther latest trend in DAL move. They are cutting back drastically in nonpilot jobs, and establishing RHS. I think this the beginning of more things to come.

Second scenario that everyone seems to not want to think about and seems to get really offended whenever it is mentioned is that it is ALSO very likely that DAL wants to MERGE Comair with CZ and then spin it off like NWA did with Pinnacle. You say no this will not happen? Just look at the latest move. DALPA wants to divulge CZ from DAL MEC and CZ to be under a separate ALPA MEC just like XJ and Comair. If you were the top management and surround yourself with this countries sharpest beancounters and lawyers and you asked what would bring in more money, what do you think the answers will be? To staple CZ and the headache that goes along with it to please some junior NWA/DAL pilots on this forum or to do the second scenario? Think about that.

Lighteningspeed...regarding merging and spinning off...many people bring that up. But the million dollar question is to whom would the combined company be spun off to? If it was that easy, Comair would have been spun off years ago.

It's always fun to speculate, but...I worked for Comair for 11 years during the Delta buyout of ASA and Comair and the pilot strike and the truth of the matter is Delta management is going to do whatever floats their boat. All the Comair guys can attest to the "Do it now and grieve it later" comments from management every time you turn around. You don't have to look any farther than the TWA pilots and the USAir pilots to see how list mergers go and those were between two mainline carriers. Why should we think any different that a merger of lists between mainline and the regional networks would ever be advantageous for the regional guys or for that matter that Delta or the union gives a crap about making a regional/regional merger fair?

2 things here. DAL would be able to use the 76 seaters to the full capacity. If I'm not mistaken they could be configured to 88 seats and get more revenue out of them. Also if down the road the emb-190 is brought in then you are already set up for it.

The other thing is the cost of a furlough. The longer the furlough the less this matters, but if it's anywhere under 2 years than it gets pretty costly.

It will be a hard sell. But if there is ever a time to try it's now. If this doesn't happen now it will never happen.

The 175 seats 76 seats with a first class, 88 in a skybus type config....not going to happen. Second, the training cost is a one time expense, while raising the wages hurts the bottom line. If Delta brings the E190 on board it can use compass training resources since it completely owns compass.

You guys all talk like compass is a competing carrier and needs to be mergered. Why would delta spend millions in attorney's fees to get a merger with compass done when it already owns the company? does that make sense?

This is nothing more than a Mesa type push for a national seniority list, everyone sees the writing on the wall. Compass pilots don't want to loose their jobs, and the delta junior guys don't want to fly at compass if it can be avoided. Who can blame them, I would be doing the same thing if I were junior at delta, or worked at compass.

Depends on where you are at now. For me it was a hard choice...I was a Pinnacle Captain, holding a decent line, based in my hometown. I was offered a job at Compass, and decided to take it. Many people called me crazy, but I took the risk and am better off for it.

Why did I make the jump to Compass? Because Pinnacle was a HORRIBLE place to work for, and Compass is better. Yeah, Compass is having a staffing issue right now, but that's the one and only negative thing I can say about them while flying the line. I'm a much happier person at Compass than I was at Pinnacle.

Bottom line is...if I was at Mesaba or somewhere else with a decent reputation, I would not have taken the risk.

A really good post. Thanks for your frank assessment. I have a good friend at Compass, with similar situation before he made the jump. He did not get offered a job at XJ even though he met the qualifications.

Compass has great airplanes and overall my impression of Compass guys are with the exception of oine or two, are really good people just trying to survive in this crazy industry just like the rest of us. I really hope it works out for Compass folks. If DAL staples Compass, that would be good in the long run for mainline joib picture hopefully but I doubt Mesaba will ever be brought in like Compass because there are too many senior people at XJ who would object to being stapled.

I think they are or have already interviewed for a pool. The pilots hope more people are hired in order to give us a break, but there are no plans, that I am aware of, to hire more. I guess the completion factor is satisfactory (good enough!) and the powers that be (in Atlanta) are happy with status quo. On time/completion stats could be improved but there is a cost associated with improvement.