Leaves and removal from CASS
 

I know this has been a big question for us looking at our company's offer for a voluntary leaves ...Please let me know what your experience has been with your company. My company didnt have an exact answer but claims that we should be removed. Also please let me know how fast or slow your company took in getting the CASS removed or reinstated.Thanks!PS- Private messages will be accepted if you are concerned ...

I took March & April TOWOP (time off without pay) from Mesaba and have been in CASS the whole time. I jumpseated last week on Hawaiian. When I asked one of our CPs about it the first day I started TOWOP, he said I would stay in CASS while on TOWOP.

Cass should be removed the day you're not an active pilot. You can't access the cockpit if you're not an active pilot. The ID should be taken as well if you're inactive. You're just back to standard mom and dad travel benefits.

While I agree and disagree with you. Im leaning more towards the disagree side since I'm thinking about taking a TOWOP myself. ;) But since CASS is a reciprocal agreement between airlines, if you can't reciprocate that agreement (since you're inactive) It shouldn't be allowed. However, if the inactive pilot can be responsible and of course let other active pilots on first especially ones that are going to work or home then I can't see it harming anyone. It might make everyone actually a little happy and give a little bit of an incentive for pilots to take a TOWOP especially, if the company really needs it.

I believe it depends on the length of the TOWOP. A month is not a long time but if you take a year off then you most likely would be taken out of CASS. So I believe at a certain time period you would have to be taken out of CASS. Getting back in the system is as easy as a few hours. When I was furloughed I was immediately taken out of the system. But, a furlough is different than a TOWOP....

It seems as if each company is treating this differently as if it is a "bonus" or privledge or some sort and I don't agree with that either. I agree that there is a point that you should not be listed in CASS but I strongly disagree that the point is when you take a, company requested ,TOWOP.

If it were a medical leave or military, etc. where the company did not come to the pilot and request them to leave, then cass removal should happen. If the company opened the door to voluntary leaves, then CASS should not be altered one bit.

You don't get taken out when you are on vacation so why should it be any different on a company requested TOWOP?

CASS has nothing whatsoever to do with airline reciprocal agreements. It is a government system used to verify your legal (TSA) eligibility for cockpit access.

There is some time limit where the company must take you out of CASS (one year?). Many companies do it sooner than that, ie ANY time you go on leave.

But in in this environment, it is to EVERYONE's benefit for those who are able to take voluntary leave to do so. Companies should allow those folks as much travel access as the law (TSA) allows. It might keep some junior FO with three kids and a stay-at-home spouse employed.

Hopefully any pilot on recreational travel, regardless of employment status, would defer the jumpseat to someone going to work.

If the company allows jumpseat access (or any other benefit) to non-military leave takers, they are legally required to offer it to those on military leave.

I believe you have to be a working pilot as far as the FAA is considered to access the cockpit. Riding in back would be at the discretion of each company and the agreements they have with others.

Am I missing something? You are still employed as a pilot while on a TOWOP. Why alter CASS when you haven't lost the job yet?

As someone mentioned above, look at it as when you're on vacation time. You still travel, even jumpseat, don't you? You're still employed as a pilot during vacation aren't you?

No need to make things complicated. (I realize some companies do)

You can be on leave, vacation, etc and still be considered to be employed. I suspect the TSA draws the line at furloughs.

Unfortunately, many airlines now use CASS to authenticate a pilot's jumpseat eligibility, period. No CASS, no jumpseat privilege...cockpit or cabin.

:eek: Whoa, you're one of the few who can spell 'privilege' correctly.

I don't know who you work for, but its not that way where I'm at. CASS is for cockpit only. I've never been checked in CASS for riding in the back on any airline besides United. United seems to be the only one who checks passport numbers as well.

umm, Spell Check? Welcome to the 90s!

Is there a spell checker on APC? Actually I predate spell checkers, I just knew how to spell it.

You should technically be able to cabin jumpseat without CASS and a passport. But UA, DL, US, AA, US, and WN always ask me for it so I'm not sure how it would work if you don't have one.

When I was new at XJ and not in CASS but had my crew badge I was attempting to get back to MSP on Airways. I wasn't in uniform and know the blue smurfs sometimes won't let you through security without uniform or gate pass so I went to ticket counter to get a pass. The lady tried looking me up and CASS and wasn't able to find me. Because the company hadn't put me in yet. So she said I wouldn't be able to jumpseat. I tried telling her that CASS was only for Cockpit Access and my crew badge and a recip agreement were all I needed for a seat in the back. She didn't care and said no. I talked to her supervisor who said the same thing, he then radioed another supervisor and asked her and she said the same thing: "if your not coming up in CASS you don't get on the plane, period." I should also mention that I knew the Captain of this flight and he told me a couple days before that all I needed was my badge and I could have a seat in the back. So after not getting anywhere with the ticket agent I decided to try my luck getting through security. Well it worked and I got to the gate and checked in. She tried looking me up in CASS and once again said she wasn't able to find me and then went on to say, "well that doesn't matter anyways because there are seats in the back." How can one group of people be so clueless and another group know what they are doing at the same airport and the same company.

TSA has not issued any requirement to be removed if you are on a LOA, be it MIL, Voluntary, medical, etc. You MUST be removed from CASS is you are subsequently furloughed.

CASS is for cockpit access only. UA, DAL, CAL, SWA....none of them requires your CASS data to be positively verified. There are some agents that don't know better, but the airline policy does not require CASS for a cabin seat. Some airlines want to process you through CASS when you check in in case you end up in the cockpit (CAL, SWA DAL, and a few others), but if your CASS query comes back denied you will be restricted to a cabin seat only (exception is Alaska, Horizon, and maybe AA).

I never have a boarding pass when passing security even if I'm nonreving on company. Sometimes, though, the smurf police has asked me for a boarding pass. I just tell them, "I'll be jumpseating today." One TSA lady once asked me what that was. She looked at me with skeptic eyes but let me through after I explained it to her in under 10 seconds.

I think some people who are ignorant just like to err on the side of safety. You can't blame them, but it would be nice if everyone involved were on the same page regarding company policies.

I just want to know how do you "jumpseat", CASS or not, without a company ID? :confused:
I am assuming that if you are on leave, you do not have a company ID?

ID's may be kept on any LOA....but not furlough.

be sure and check you company policies.... regardless of what you MAY be able to do at OAL's, your company policy may say otherwise. I know of at least two carriers that prohibit OAL cabin/cockpit jumpseating if on leaves of any kind.

Thanks for all the responses!
I agree that you should stay in CASS as it is a program which is used to verify your credentials. There would obviously be priority given as a courtesy to guys flying to work over guys flying home over guys flying for pleasure as there always is!
The company does stupid things though because they see us as flying for "Free" ... they dont view this as our last resort (which it is most times!).
Anyway, I will keep you updated on whether or not my airline removes me.
I believe that I should still be able to sit in the back even if I'm not in CASS - I will probably have to stuggle with the gate agents for that one tho!
~Safe Flyin

I certainly don't doubt that. My understanding was that you didn't even need CASS for military or medical and that the company would give you "as needed" passes.

That may vary from company to company too.

Now wait a minute. Didn't an arbitraitor JUST rule that the furloughed ladies and gentelmen of American Airlines were still employed?!?

You know, the ones that haven't received a benifit, paycheck, phone call, christmas card, update, etc. for up to 7 years?!?

You mean the TSA may have their own rules?!?


TIC.......kinda (not you, the ruling and the TSA).

I was going to say the same thing. We need to get that arbitrator involed in this issue.

It depends, there may be some guiding princaples on this from above but it seems to be however the airline wants to do it. At Mesa if you're on the voluntary leave (1 year) then youre out of CASS, if youre on the "time off program" (30,60 days) then youre still in CASS.

They've been removing guys at Pinnacle from CASS even on 7 day LOAs. The last guy I talked to said he was removed from CASS but still jumpseated many times with just his ID badge on several airlines. What I don't understand is, what's with the ZED tickets? Not being able to use ZED tickets on a LOA kind of defeats the purpose of taking one for a lot of people, since most guys want to travel..

What your company decides to do, and what is required under TSA SD's could be two different things.