on the upturn.
 

has anyone ever realized...even if things turn around and the regionals start hiring again...
Pay and QOL will never improve.
Pay should be minimum double what it is.
all of you people standing in line to take these jobs ruin it for everyone.

All new observations. Thanks!

I think we all were/are guilty of "standing in line" at one point or another. We have no one else to blame but ourselves.

...and ditto with the post above. :p

Nice job. You have solved everything. Other than the 50 posts/day on this exact topic, you might be the first one after 2239 CT tonight to realize this. Congrats.

I think we are all just happy to have jobs right now....

Great thread.

Wow. That was a mind-blowing epiphany! Thanks for the great words of encouragement and I look forward to more valuable nuggets of your opinion in the future. :rolleyes: There is WAY WAY more to this profession then shiny jets, spiffy uniforms, OQL and pay. If thats what your in this for, then perhaps this isn't the line of work for you. Some of my students read these forums and are concerned with some of the things they read. I tell them that some of people who write on here are people that speak but have nothing to say. So do me a favor and go back to your 150 and stop costing me business...

i agree the pay and qol "should be" better, but it comes down to simple supply and demand for pilots. it's terrible that a lot of jobs that require less skill and education pay as much if not more, have better qol and are more stable. this is why i think people these days realize that being an airline pilot is not as good a job as it once was and are choosing different careers. just look at the hiring boom 2 years ago, at the time there was only small movement and growth in the industry but the pool of pilots looked like it was drying up quickly. 10 or 15 years ago there was many more pilots to choose from and regionals wouldn't have to hire at commercial mins back then. just look at how many flight schools are out there now compared to 10 years ago. even the largest schools here are only barely surviving by catering to the foreign students, no average joe wants to spend 60k+ for a 20k job (if you can even find one now) with the prospects of not being home every night for your family and not knowing if your airline will even be around next year.

No offense, but everyone knows the realities of the industry already, you're a bit late to the party; but thank you for playing.

Threads like these are the excat reason that the regional forum is worthless to even visit anymore. Bravo captain obvious.

Every time I look on the forums I feel like drinking a gallon of skydrol afterwards.

I'm with you man. Probably one of the best posts in a while. Short and to the point. Hopefully this recession will change people's minds.

Are you serious? What do you mean you hope it will change people's minds, as in they won't want to be a pilot anymore? Yes hopefully nobody wants to be an airline pilot and I'll be the only one left. That way I can make literally hundreds of dollars.

Not pilot, airline pilot. It's already working as hundreds of pro oriented schools are going out of business and some of the pilot mills are becoming desperate as well. Most out there realize that this is a job, that also needs to provide their other basic life needs, like money and security. If they have a passion for it they'll just rent a 172 over the weekend, that doesn't hurt anyone.

Well I agree with one thing that cappelation said, and that is pay should be double. I don't agree with the negative attitude that things will never change and that 'everyone else' is ruining it. I think it is unfair for that to be said unless that person has left the profession already. I also am aware that not many people are getting into this profession because the cost/benefit is simply not there. I love my job, but would I do it all over again, no.

This comes off as a smidge preachy coming from a 23 year old cat that is "seat locked" in a Cessna 150 and isn't indicating any actual 121 experience.


There is a continuing excess of pilots, and part of management's agenda is to take advantage of this fact. Thank you for inspiring me with your incredible acumen.

...That is - inspiring me to take another two week break from APC.

Oh, and if you're tired of being "seatlocked" in that 150, I know of at least two pilots on the street who would love to teach again instead of "waiting in line" and just building time.

Upturn.....Whats that? :rolleyes:

When Mesa hires again.

Well if you put it like that, then there def isnt going be an upturn...:D

I know this may not be a popular opinion among the masses, but aviation is what it is and most of us knew that coming in but did it anyway. I submit to you " Please read a book called the "Professional Pilots career Guide" by Robert Mark, and then reevaluate how you will prepare and interview in the future when things turn around. This is not the first tough market in aviation, and it will not be the last. Im not saying this will land you a job later on but the book is full of some powerful experiences of pilots over the years and some valuable lessons if applied correctly. We all need to be HONEST with ourselves and admit that mabye we didnt do as much research as we should have when entered this job, we simply jumped at the chance to fly for a living. So the question remains do we continue to blame everyone else or do we work on making sure we make more imformed decisions for our futures.

News Flash We are responsible for our own destinys, no one else...you still have this wonderful thing called freedom of choice...

Someone will be in line to take your place as you say;)

wasn't there a study one time, that there will be a huge shortage of pilots?

I've studied it and I say yes. It costs 179/hr dual to fly a 172SP now days. Not many can afford that. Some will take loans, but they've still got to pay.

Sorry you missed the bus, the next one won't be around for a while. Find something else to do in the meantime. Otherwise, you're just another crazy person hanging out at the bus station.



Too deep?

LOL! Good analogy.

yes, and once they pass user fess there will be even less pilots.

The end result is the airlines will begin ab-initio programs in China and elsewhere, where they import you, house and train you in exchange for a six-ten year contract at 30k a year. Six days on 3 days off... and there will be a steady line of them to take the job.

I submit that the future pilot shortage will not be caused by restrictions but by the fact that flying will have become on the same level as driving a bus. Sure there are those that will go over the cliff to fly, like embry dribble and company because they've been brainwashed that their degree will take them to Fedex in not time. But most out there have other expectations to flying as well. I've talked to a few non airline pilots lately and I was surprised at how low they view airline flying. They actually belive we already have the bus driver status. The amount of comm applicants has gone way down the last several years. When majors hire again there will be chaos.

Imagine someone out there right now trying to fly airlines.. They see what is going on. Regionals are taking over the skies. Do you think they would pursue this career or at least the airline avenue when they know that they will be regional pilots for a very long time?

You can have my cubicle... I bet I make less than you too.

I hear what you are saying tho, pay should certainly be higher than it is. But just be glad you aren't someones office *****, you aren't flipping burgers, or slaving away on some assembly line.

If we want this to change, u gotta make it public knowledge that regional FO's only make xxx amount of money... Idiot public still think they make 6 figures...

Yet they don't mind supporting sports figures in their 20's making millions of dollars per year for throwing a ball around a field.

Sounds like the military in some ways!

USMCFLYR

Going to the public will be meaningless. If the bomb makers union came on demanding higher wages do you think you'd care? No. What we should be doing every chance we get as well as our unions is to educate future pilots. That's they only way.

or keep doing what this board is doing - turning people off to ever becoming a pilot... That way demand goes up, supply goes down... lol

It's for their own good so they can focus on a real job. Back when I was training it was thought that you'd spend a a few years at a regional and move on to the majors in a few years. I wouldn't have wasted all that time on flying if I knew what the future would hold. Now it looks like we'll be CRJ and ERJ captains for a very long time. Plus thousands on furlough at the majors, age 65 and the economy. I'm actually seriously looking at foreign companies, my dream is not exactly to fly CRJs from ORD to Tulsa for the rest of my life. You would be crazy to get into airline flying now. You know it's bad when you have to keep telling yourself I love my job I love my job I love my job.

Things will change, like its been said a hundred times, this industry is a cycle of good and bad, it will eventually turn for the better. Now weather pay and qol will change from company to company I dunno, but I believe hiring and recalls will resume, eventually. Give it time. :cool:

ya it is a cycle, but from what i've seen, the good times are only a year or two, with the bad times being maybe 5 years.

Flying is for most of us, I would argue, more about passion then getting rich. Sure, the dream of six figure salaries played a part, but what about the freedom and joy and wonder and excitement of flying? All those qualities about this profession that makes little kids awe every time they are around an airport or see an airplane. We do this job because we want to be aviators, because we love flying. We all think that we want to be airline pilots because, as outsiders, we think the airline pilots are the kings of the industry. Once we get into this profession part our individual responsibility and commitment to ourselves is to find where we fit into the flying community and how to fit this crazy passion into the rest our lives.

There are a lot more opportunities out there as a professional pilot then flying from 150 people back and forth from Souix Falls to Denver for thirty years. It is up to us as individuals to learn as much about this profession as possible and then guide the next generation of aviators to where they will find happiness between the earth and the stars. As professionals it is not our place to kill the dreams of the rookies, but to offer up our experiences when asked and allow those who come after us to choose their own path.

I actually agree whole heartedly, but many on here have this belief that the fact that (the passion we all have for this above the money) is bringing the industry down, that seems to be the opinion of most on here. I am simply imploring most of us to recognize that we made our decisions with freedom, the right and wrong decisions we all have made on our career path were made by us as individuals, so quit looking to blame you hardships on some one else. I agree we should impart our experiences (good and bad) to younger aviators, but not with a cancerous attitude. In the end, good bad or indifferant, we all chose to be here...period.

Before I get hammered, I am not advocating flying for free. I would love to join the airlines but I don't believe that I can support my family on 25K the first year and then maybe low 30s the next. I'm on here taking as much in as possible and I'm all for higher pay and better work rules. There is always going to be a lower bidder flying regionals, there will always be a pilot accepting lower pay to allow that regional to under bid the competition, but I know my financial limits and I've broadened my horizons in the job search.