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-   -   Fun ^ Responsibility ^ (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/39929-fun-responsibility.html)

SmoothOnTop 05-12-2009 09:18 AM

Fun ^ Responsibility ^
 
When I was young, confident, complacent and "it can't happen to me" pilot, I wasn't a perfect steward for a sterile flight deck (sightseeing comments, to my crew members, were my vices).

Reading a cvr transcript back then changed my ways.

About 5000 aircraft (all operations) are airborne over the U.S. at noon on a typical day, 1 crew not observing sterile flight deck procedures below 10,000 msl is one too many!

How many professional crews engage in this behavior?

If you have a crew member that likes to yap in sterile, except for conversations regarding flight, stay quiet.
She/he might get the hint. Then lead by example, when you complete the climb checks after passing 10 or 18k, talk up the non-critical stuff. Descending back through 18 or 10k, shut the non flight stuff off.

Please use this recent cvr transcript as a trigger to reflect on your own behaviors...

Rascal 05-12-2009 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by SmoothOnTop (Post 609003)
When I was young, confident, complacent and "it can't happen to me" pilot, I wasn't a perfect steward for a sterile flight deck (sightseeing comments, to my crew members, were my vices).

Reading a cvr transcript back then changed my ways.

About 5000 aircraft (all operations) are airborne over the U.S. at noon on a typical day, 1 crew not observing sterile flight deck procedures below 10,000 msl is one too many!

How many professional crews engage in this behavior?

If you have a crew member that likes to yap in sterile, except for conversations regarding flight, stay quiet.
She/he might get the hint. Then lead by example, when you complete the climb checks after passing 10 or 18k, talk up the non-critical stuff. Descending back through 18 or 10k, shut the non flight stuff off.

Please use this recent cvr transcript as a trigger to reflect on your own behaviors...

Last time I checked "professionals" were paid more than minimum wage... So much demanded from people that live with mummy and daddy because they can't afford rent. Maybe better pay can attract more candidates and then you can be more selective in choosing "professional" pilot to work at your airline.

StillLearning 05-12-2009 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 609015)
Last time I checked "professionals" were paid more than minimum wage... So much demanded from people that live with mummy and daddy because they can't afford rent. Maybe better pay can attract more candidates and then you can be more selective in choosing "professional" pilot to work at your airline.

Some doctors during their residency/internship years are paid about the same as 3rd year regional jet pilots.

Does that make you worry?

Seatownflyer 05-12-2009 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by StillLearning (Post 609025)
Some doctors during their residency/internship years are paid about the same as 3rd year regional jet pilots.

Does that make you worry?

Yep. Were not interns or training to be pilots anymore. other than recurrent etc...

BoredwLife 05-12-2009 09:51 AM

Smooth makes a good point.

It happened to me once or twice early on in my career that I said something below and/or above 10k and thought "If we don't make it in, how is this going to reflect my character to my family, my friends, the family and friends of the pax, and the rest of the world?"

Thats something I wouldn't want to put my family through. If the FO's family is watching what is going on, they are repeatedly hearing about her saying that she should have called in sick, they are hearing about how they broke a regulation and were speaking below 10k.

That was what made me take the approach of "stay silent and the other one will get the hint."

Rascal 05-12-2009 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by StillLearning (Post 609025)
Some doctors during their residency/internship years are paid about the same as 3rd year regional jet pilots.

Does that make you worry?

No. Doctors go through residency once and for a set amount of time. S an airline pilot you may go decades of low pay.

ImEbee 05-12-2009 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 609015)
Last time I checked "professionals" were paid more than minimum wage... So much demanded from people that live with mummy and daddy because they can't afford rent. Maybe better pay can attract more candidates and then you can be more selective in choosing "professional" pilot to work at your airline.

I'm sorry but I don't care how much you are paid, you are a professional as soon as you get in the flight deck. Did the expectations of you change after you were hired? We all know our responsibilities and if you don't feel you are not paid enough to act professional then us all a favor and resign. Don't use pay as an excuse to do whatever you want in the air.

ToiletDuck 05-12-2009 10:39 AM

Id' say for the most part everyone I fly with adheres to sterile cockpit. Coming into STL where everyone has done it a thousand times sometimes leads to a relaxed comment about the weather or what not but I feel our guys do a great job of keeping it sterile. Since our legs are 1hr plus there's plenty of time to talk about things once at altitude.

BlueMoon 05-12-2009 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 609015)
Last time I checked "professionals" were paid more than minimum wage... So much demanded from people that live with mummy and daddy because they can't afford rent. Maybe better pay can attract more candidates and then you can be more selective in choosing "professional" pilot to work at your airline.

If you have to be paid to do the right thing, you are not a professional. You chose to work where you work and you knew what the pay was, you should do your job. I am not saying I have never offended the sterile cockpit rule, but the pay arguement does not hold water.

Integrity.

Rascal 05-12-2009 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by BlueMoon (Post 609070)
If you have to be paid to do the right thing, you are not a professional. You chose to work where you work and you knew what the pay was, you should do your job. I am not saying I have never offended the sterile cockpit rule, but the pay arguement does not hold water.

Integrity.

Do you expect the same service from McDonald's as you would from a good steakhouse? All I am saying, is that with better pay you attract more professionals or at least you can pick your pilots out of larger pool and you are more likely to get more qualified candidates. Everyone expect pilots to be held up to the highest standard when it comes to experience, professionalism etc. ,except when it comes to pay. People defend outrageous CEO salaries because it keeps the best from leaving the company, yet this rule somehow does not work for pilots....

rickair7777 05-12-2009 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by SmoothOnTop (Post 609003)
When I was young, confident, complacent and "it can't happen to me" pilot, I wasn't a perfect steward for a sterile flight deck (sightseeing comments, to my crew members, were my vices).

Reading a cvr transcript back then changed my ways.

About 5000 aircraft (all operations) are airborne over the U.S. at noon on a typical day, 1 crew not observing sterile flight deck procedures below 10,000 msl is one too many!

How many professional crews engage in this behavior?

If you have a crew member that likes to yap in sterile, except for conversations regarding flight, stay quiet.
She/he might get the hint. Then lead by example, when you complete the climb checks after passing 10 or 18k, talk up the non-critical stuff. Descending back through 18 or 10k, shut the non flight stuff off.

Please use this recent cvr transcript as a trigger to reflect on your own behaviors...

Yeah, I had the same thoughts looking at that transcript. In the regionals it is VERY, VERY common to violate sterile...almost universal. At my company we recently raised it to 18K on the descent, which is pretty annoying, but oh well.

I'm trying to be more compliant.

rickair7777 05-12-2009 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 609015)
Last time I checked "professionals" were paid more than minimum wage... So much demanded from people that live with mummy and daddy because they can't afford rent. Maybe better pay can attract more candidates and then you can be more selective in choosing "professional" pilot to work at your airline.

This makes no sense...you will be the first to arrive at the scene of the accident.

I can kind of understand the pay argument with regard to professional appearance and behavior on overnights though...

ImEbee 05-12-2009 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 609079)
Do you expect the same service from McDonald's as you would from a good steakhouse? All I am saying, is that with better pay you attract more professionals or at least you can pick your pilots out of larger pool and you are more likely to get more qualified candidates. Everyone expect pilots to be held up to the highest standard when it comes to experience, professionalism etc. ,except when it comes to pay. People defend outrageous CEO salaries because it keeps the best from leaving the company, yet this rule somehow does not work for pilots....

Service is not the issue when we are talking about sterile cockpit procedures. When I go to McDonald's I still expect my fries not to be burned. We are talking about keeping your mouth shut when you are supposed to and pay has nothing to do with your ability to do that.

Is this the excuse you are prepared to use?

Rascal 05-12-2009 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by ImEbee (Post 609195)
Service is not the issue when we are talking about sterile cockpit procedures. When I go to McDonald's I still expect my fries not to be burned. We are talking about keeping your mouth shut when you are supposed to and pay has nothing to do with your ability to do that.

Is this the excuse you are prepared to use?

Your fries are more likely to burned at McDonald than at a steakhouse... I am not prepared to use this as an excuse because I care about my family and I am not selfish enough to put them through years of "professional" wages.

SmoothOnTop 05-12-2009 04:52 PM


Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 609015)
Maybe better pay can attract more candidates and then you can be more selective in choosing "professional" pilot to work at your airline.

A very good point.

Now for my unpopular brainstorming question:

If we abandon the seniority based upgrade for the merit/skill upgrade of the corporate world, couldn't we attract better candidates that would go straight to captain???

duvie 05-12-2009 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 609201)
Your fries are more likely to burned at McDonald than at a steakhouse... I am not prepared to use this as an excuse because I care about my family and I am not selfish enough to put them through years of "professional" wages.

People with your attitude are not needed on the flight deck. When people's lives are at stake you do the best job you can. Period. I'm sorry if aviation isn't everything you hoped for, but you knew what the job entailed and you should have known the salary progression.

Do you think a Fed-ex pilot deserves 300K to work 10 days a month and fly boxes around? Maybe, maybe not, but many of us get into this business for a shot at the dream. I'm sorry if you're frustrated at the current state of the industry but if you're not willing to do your best for the people who put their lives in your hands then you won't be missed.


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