Should not ALPA do something????
 

It was just thinking that it is the perfect time for ALPA to steep up and do something about Pilot pay at the regionals, Scheduling and QOL. Specially now that is hot on the media before it cools down it can draw a lot more attention.

How about we contact our ALPA reps to try to make our union do something to increase our already degraded QOL????

What is ALPA going to do? Go to mgmt and ask for more money and mgmt will give it because they are good people?

The fact is that in 3 months people will be back to thinking that all pilots make 100K a year and forget what a regional airline is.

[quote=The Juice;611691]What is ALPA going to do? Go to mgmt and ask for more money and mgmt will give it because they are good people?

The fact is that in 3 months people will be back to thinking that all pilots make 100K a year and forget what a regional airline is.[/quote]]

Not necessarily, if we all continue to bring this up to the ALPA reps, continue to write to our congressmen and continue to keep this in the spotlight, we will be able to make a change! we can't all just say "ah it's not worth it" and give up. We have to fight for it and work hard on getting what we want AND deserve! I spent over $200,000 on my aviation career because this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I've wanted to fly since I was 5 years old and nothing has stopped me from getting to this point. Well I am not going to let getting paid only $20,000 a year stop me either. I am going to do something about it! I am going to write the congressman who is the head of the aviation board and give him ideas that he can bring up to congress. And I for one am optimistic that if enough of us try hard enough, we can make a huge difference and finally get paid for the education we receive and for what we do for the general public....KEEP THEM SAFE WHILE THEY FLY UNDER OUR HANDS!!! I LOVE to fly and I am going to do all that I can to get paid for doing what I love to do. Now lets all stop fighting against each other and join together and make a difference!!!!!!

In a "never let a serious crisis go to waste" kind of way?

Do you think the 3407 pilot's reaction to the shaker and then the pusher would have been different if he had 16 days off a month and earned 100k annually?

The reaction would have been different because the reaction would never have happened. If the position was as described there would be tons of great pilots fighting for the job and anyone with three failed checkrides would be almost categorically disqualified by increased hiring standards. I tried to make this point on another thread and was apparently misunderstood. Good pay does not make the pilot better. Good pay allows airlines to pick out the best pilots rather than lowering the standard every time they start to run short.

A nice point.

It also alleviates the ability that management has to run under the "Well the FAA says I can hire.........." without personal ramifications. No, it doesn't fix it but it helps. This whole reaction with Congress and Colgan's management is exactly what would happen anywhere.

"Why were those people flying the plane?" with the only answer being, "Because the FAA told us we could hire them and take any personal ramifications out of the equation."

We HAVE to get hard numbers and qualifications for new employees in this industry.

If a company says it can't stay in business with those numbers then they add nothing pertinent to the industry anyway and should be shut down.

ALPA IS doing something !

Why, there collecting lots of dues and living well............what else do you expect ?

The top ALPA dogs commute to their paid apartments (nice !) and 5-figure expense accounts which is a nice suppliment to $ 300,000 a year plus salary, while starving young airline pilots do the same but sleep on couches for $ 18,000 a year.

Even the most junior secretary in Herndon pulls down 2-3 times what Shaw made and doesn't have to commute.

Now keep sending those dues checks in or ALPA will see to it your FIRED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you actually knew the inner workings you would have a totally different viewpoint. Talking with National guys on weekends, days off, even on vacation changes the viewpoint. It's not an 18 day off weekend off job.

Like the other guy said, good point. But there are ALSO guys that have NEVER failed a ride, and somehow seemed to bend metal/kill people through some kind of mistake or their own.

Just to use as examples, I wonder if Captain van Zanten ever failed a check ride, or the AA Capatain at LIT?

I do think this adds up here ALPA + Pilot Group = CBA

..........but it isn't even on the same planet as the commuting commuter pilot, now is it ?

There's little true urgency to change the system because those at the top don't live where they crap. Many years ago, ALPA trumpeted "One level of Safety".

Where did it go ?

The grand buffets in Herndon haven't disappeared, but the lifestyle of half the airline pilots in this country (and almost half of ALPA's coffers) has plummeted to become basic survival......Ramen noodles and crewroom couches.

GMAFB...........That dog won't hunt.

Sympathy from Herndon is useless.

Hey wait a minute, give them SOME credit. They've learned a lot at ALPA. Just last week, they followed the lead of great airline managements and imposed; yes IMPOSED a cutback filled contract on their own union employees.

Who would have thought a UNION who claims to fight for us poor working stiffs would have the balls to do to their own people what airline management does to us? And just like airline management, they kept their fat paychecks and benefits untouched.

I want to be the ALPA General Manager and make $400,000.00 a year. Or the head lawyer over there who makes the same. And get a bunch of low paid pilots to pay my way. And then screw the employees. So what it they take it out on the pilots, right? I got mine.

I stand corrected.

But shouldn't this be proof to all that first and foremost, ALPA is a BUSINESS. Business (ALL businesses) have one immutable, undenyable fact in their existance and that is their PRIMARY objective is self-sustanance and profit.

ALPA NUMBER 1 PRIORITY is dues income money. The financially lopsided lifestyles of the stuffed shirts in Herndon have continued anabated while those that are mugged for their dollars are bleeding (and dying) on the front lines.

ALPA National should be liquidated.

I think the point of this argument is that when ever there is an accident of some sort, someone did something wrong. There are some accidents that were almost impossible to prevent and don't fall under one of the know operational pitfalls. IF the cause of this most recent accident was what it seems to be, then that accident could have been prevented very easily. The decision making process was not all that complex......Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Three simple steps. Now I wasn't there and I cannot speculate, but if that was the cause......well that could have probably been prevented with a little experience. But in the argument of the airline management "Experience is too expensive".

Think about the recent Hudson River Accident. Preventing that accident would have been pretty hard but it was experience that ultimately prevented the catastrophe. Someone that had never had any real aerodynamic experience my have delayed their decision making and ditched somewhere a little less forgiving.

ALPA is one of the root problems in this industry. Yeah, they're are good for safety issues in my opinion, but for negotiating pay? No way. Why is there a payscale in the first place? Why does a junior FO make $16,000 a year and a senior captain at the same company make $160,000? At least that's true at my company. Instead why doesn't ALPA negotiate salary. Why can't FOs make $50,000/year and Captains make $100,000, with the exception maybe of a probationary first year. I'm just throwing out numbers...the point I'm trying to make is that a salary system is better than a payscale. Think about it, everyone would come out ahead if you do the math because it takes you less time to achieve a higher salary. And, if you get laid off, instead of going to another $16,000/year job, you get a $50,000/year job at another airline because its salaried too. If an accountant gets laid off do they go back to making poverty level wages just because they have to change companys? No, they go to another company and probably make more because of prior work experience. So why is it the opposite with an airline pilot? Thanks ALPA.

The same tired arguments. If you dont like it, then get involved and try to change it. At the very least you won't beat em, but you'll join them.
The whole ALPA National 'fat cat lifestyle' argument is worn out. :rolleyes:

Maybe we need to go after the RLA, because 99.9% of the time that's what is holding us down. People want to gripe & moan about ALPA, but they don't want to take the time to get involved.

If ya hate ALPA so much why don't ya just start a compaign to oust them? It seems to be working great for UsAir. :rolleyes:

Great example. I never received one of the hundreds of invoices they sent me asking for $40 for the comair merger fund.

Without warning via email, phone or mail, I received a certified letter from ALPA informing me of my lifetime expulsion from the union, and how disappointed they were in my inability to unify with pilots worldwide, and to help out my comair brothers. No where on the letter was there contact information for anyone at ALPA national.

I went ahead and cut them a check for $40 and sent it in. After about 2 weeks I talked to my ALPA rep and had him check my "status." He said that everything appeared normal now that my balence was 0.00.

No letter of re-instatement or comment from anyone in VA, just the return of the worthless weekly emails updating us on how the MEC is spending our money and wasting their time (safety committee meetings, team building conferences, etc).

These are the people I pay to look out for my best interests? They were going to can me over $40. Really?

I agree with you. When I tell people that if there's a layoff or shut down you go back to 20 or 30k per year if you find another airline, they think it's just ridiculous. The problem with the union is that the pay scales are also kept in place for years and years making it difficult for them to adjust. 65K was great money back in the 1990s but not the same now in 2009. Top ALPA carriers have their benefits but the majority of us are stuck with poverty pay that hasn't changed for decades. There definitely needs to be change.

I think that now might not be the perfect timing with a plethora of pilots out on the streets and most regionals if not all fat on pilots. Maybe in a couple of years when hiring resumes and the regionals find themselves in need of pilots due to growth and the void created by mass retirements, we might have a little bit of leverage.

Ditto here......Same crappy treatment, same shi!!y result. Makes one wonder what the real priority here is. :rolleyes:

One of the better options I have heard. I can't see a national seniority list happening but this would solve many of the problems inherent with the decision to fly for a different carrier.

For those of you who are fed up with your representation, do some research and find other options. I know there are some small unions out there that would be willing to take up new clients and fight hard to make a mark. As someone said earlier, ALPA, Teamsters etc. are more concerned with collecting dues than putting up a fight. This is what the pilot group/unions need to do right now. No matter how intense the media coverage is or how concerned the public is, no airline is just going to pony up better pay and or work rules without a fight or concessions from the pilot group. Find someone who will.

We felt like the Teamsters were giving us poor representation here at Lakes so we went through the process to replace them. Will that change anything? Time will tell, but at the very least International is now aware of the fiasco going on in the 747. And I must say that I am more confident that changes that need to be made here will come with Sowell and his cronies out of the picture.

As the compensation in this industry continues to decline we need to ask ourselves if our current representation is equipped to get it back or if someone else may be able to do it better.

Or maybe we're all screwed no matter what.

I'm sure you'll be first to show us all how it's done by withdrawing from the union in protest... You are not required to be a member.

Wow... does this ring a bell.. My new hire class in 11/07 never got an ALPA presentation, and I've never belonged to a union before. This has been one hell of an eye-opener for me. So far, the ONLY thing I see them caring about is getting my money. I figured out on my own when to turn in my paperwork so they could start taking that $42/month out of my paycheck... well, they neglected to do so for the 1st and 2nd month... and I guess on top of that they want some stupid ass $120 merger fund or assessment as they call it. I have no clue.. no one ever told me about this... So, before I know it, I get a bill for around $200 that they want payment for... I was absolutely incredulous... so I called them, e-mailed them and told them that I am a 2nd year FO who made $18,939 last year... and you expect me to cough up $200 at once? Then they tell me, well, if you fill out an application to make payments of $25/month you can do that... I basically told them to stuff it, that I'm not applying to make payments on a debt that in my opinion, I did not incur, they forced on me... I told them I'd pay whatever I could when I could and sent them a check for $50 as a good faith gesture... what did I just get in the mail? A letter stating that if they don't get the rest of their money within 30 days, they are going to kick me out of the union... and I'm already in "bad standing"... this is a friggin joke... There was a time when I couldn't wait to be an airline pilot and be part of ALPA... I still love being an airline pilot, but I absolutely hate what I'm seeing from these people... I also told them that how can they expect someone who makes poverty wages to just come up with $200 because they say so?? I'd love to hear other stories and know other opinions, but this union is a joke if they're going to treat their members like this...

I'm quite certain ALPA was the one that engineered most of the CBA stuff we have now - meaning they helped set our pay and accepted the rates we get. If they could've gotten more, they would've taken more. The airlines aren't going to budge and there is little anyone can do about it.