Sniper

Skiles is a former 737 CA for US Airways. His position in the right seat has everything to do with his seniority within his company.

Yes.

Purpleanga

He is putting the carriage before the horse. It doesn't work that way. You can't raise requirements and expect people to show up for a 16000 dollar job. The reason why they had higher requirements back in the day was because the airlines were worth sacrificing for.

Tinpusher007

I agree with this in theory, but I think the cost of getting an ATP might be cost prohibitive to alot of people. The biggest wallet doesn't equal the best pilot. Perhaps the initial PC should be a PIC type ride for all newhires.

bryris

It sounds like Sully pretty much threw CRM out the window, was flying AND talking on the radios and whatever else. Skiles basically rode down with the rest of them.

As a side note, I think that military attitude of "sit over there and don't touch anything", is likely a double edged sword. It worked out in the end though, can't argue with that.

We can all dream all day long about what minimums should be. Minimums will be dictated on supply and demand. Right now, Colgan can adjust their minimums up just by using some whiteout, because they ain't hiring. Once pilots become a commodity again, that'll be thrown out of the window.

rickair7777

I agree, ATP for both pilots.

How to make it happen? Regionals either raise FO pay, or subsidize training. The puppy-mills could start offering 180-day ATP courses for $140K...

90 days for all your basic ratings ($50k/250 hours).

Another 90 days for time building ($90K/1250 hours)...14 flight hours/day for 90 days

utedrummer

I agree with him.

I find him arrogant that just because all the ducks lined up nicely for him and his pax he thinks gods gift to the flying public. (They still dented the plane)

But I agree with him about ATPs for all.

rickair7777

That is the is the old-school civilian attitude too...the copilot did gear, flaps, and the odd landing (if he was lucky). Some fighter pilots naturally tend to do the same thing...that's why we have all the CRM emphasis these days.

Sniper

People are still sacrificing for aviation. To get into the industry, one must either incur large training costs ($30K or more, at least) or go the military route, incurring the cost of being away from home, giving up years of your life, and even lower pay in order to get the training needed to gain entry into an airline.

There are many who are on the outside of this profession looking in who would pay for the opportunity to fly for an airline. That's certainly a monetary sacrifice, no?

FO Shaw sacrificed her income, her QOL, her sleep, and, ultimately, her life, for 'the airlines'.

You want to be an airline transport pilot? Get the license.

robthree

23 years ago the regional level was... US Air (ok Piedmont) and Eastern Air Lines. (At least in Florida where I grew up... In Texas it was WN and Texas Int'l.) Sixty seat jets were Fokker F28s and DC-9s. The routes were intra-state. In other words, regional flying.

One problem with experience in the cockpit is scope. No one wants to stay at Colgan, and few at a top shelf regional, simply because the brighter future is elsewhere. So the most experienced pilots there still ougt to be sitting in the right seat. The right seat of bigger equipment certainly. If all flights sold by CAL were operated by its own pilots, chances are better that a more experienced pilot would have been PIC that night. And the Colgan Captain would have been happy to be a 737 FO.

I tend to agree that an ATP ought to be the minimum requirement for passenger carrying under 121. But far more important is a stable environment where those with the most experience can pass it on to those who need it.

"You need someone older an wiser
Telling you what to do
I am seventeen going on eighteen
I'll take care of you"

Purpleanga

Well.. exactly. What is the incentive for future pilots to show up for class under the current airline conditions? Not much. The crew of this flight both had well over 1500 hundred hours so if there's any case that proves that ATP requirements are needed it's not from this crash.